zorro
Old Guy
No, you wouldn't get striped tesseras out of the F1's since stripe and motley are recessive. One of the pics I posted is of a striped tessera and you can see the lack of pattern on the sides.
John
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Tessera Club!! Post Yours Too!!
- Thread starter Nanci
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No, you wouldn't get striped tesseras out of the F1's since stripe and motley are recessive. One of the pics I posted is of a striped tessera and you can see the lack of pattern on the sides.
John
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
I am willing to offer my opinions, but Tesseras are currently very new, and they were started by others, that know much more than I do about them. I have nearly a complete understanding of the current genetics of our Corns, but experience with a morph and seeing a bunch of hatchlings is very important when trying to understand how new morphs are inherited. Experience really helps to see things others might not pick up on. I have zero experience with Tessera.
Your question was already answered correctly. Tessera is located at a different locus than Motley and Striped. Adding Motley and/or Striped to Tessera is the same process as adding all of the other recessive morphs we have.
Since Tessera is dominant, Het Tessera produces the Tessera pheno. This is a new concept, but easy to understand. Adding the recessive genes that we already know about, is exactly the same as before. The only difference is you are building morphs like your breeding to a Caramel, on a Tessera pattern, rather than a Normal pattern. You will get about half Tesseras and half Normal pattern, het for Caramel. The only difference is the pattern.
Since Motley and Striped are alleles, breeding to either one, will possibly reveal if your Tessera is carrying the gene. If your Tessera is het Motley and you bred it to a Motley, 50% of your clutch will be Tessera and 50% of your clutch will be Motley, so you should produced Tessera Motleys in the clutch.
Personally, I can not identify a Tessera Striped or Tessera Motleys. I just don’t see it yet, but that is where experience will help.
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
I received a message to further explain why a “Het” Tessera is a Tessera. I am looking forward to working with Tessera, but I still have some questions too, so I will explain some of my questions as I go. There is a lot of information already about Tessera on this forum if you do a search.
Tessera is the first obvious dominant pattern gene. I am lucky to have bred Salmon Boas and other Boas with dominant genes, so understanding how it is inherited is easy for me. Boas also have many recessive genes to mix with the dominant ones, so understanding how they mix has already been figured out and I have experience with them.
When we bred Tessera X Normal Pattern, we are actually breeding a Het Tessera X homo Normal, or Tess/N x N/N, The results are 50% Tesseras Tes/N (Het Tess) and 50% Normals N/N. We all want to know if there is a “Super” Tessera. Genetically, I don’t see how homo Tessera , Tes/Tes, will not be produced. It only takes one copy of the Tessera gene to make Tessera because it is dominant, instead of two copies like with recessive genes. Only one parent needs to carry the Tessera gene to make Tessera offspring. With recessive genes, both parents need to carry the gene to reproduce the morph.
Will there be visual differences between homo Tessera and het Tessera, that will give us the Super Morph? In boas, it can be obvious, or like with Salmon Boas, the two phenotypes are very similar and I can not tell them apart.
The questions I still have about Tessera with Motley and/or Striped in the mix, is the possibility of four different phenotypes. Het Tessera, homo Tessera, homo Tessera Motley and homo Tessera Striped. We could add homo Tessera Bloodred to the list. Since Tessera is dominant, testing for Motley will not be the same as testing for Motley like we have done before with Normal Pattern.
It is possible to breed Tessera het Motley X Motley and produce 50% Tessera looking pheno and 50% Motley looking phenos, with no Normals in the clutch. We would be expecting a half a clutch, or quarter to be Normal Phase. We may only get one Normal, or two, but maybe NONE, all of which would be confusing. What about Tessera Motley X Motley, or Tessera Motley X het Motley, if we don‘t already KNOW that the Tessera is in fact homo for Motley. Since we may not know what a Super Tessera looks like visual identification may be difficult.
Since Tessera and Motley phenos look similar, there could be some difficult identifying which is which. (It may be easier than I think, like I said, I have NO experience with Tessera ) Trying to identify Tessera, Tessera Motleys, Tessera Stripes, and possible Super Tesseras VISUALLY, is prone to the same misidentifications as with Striped Bloods. Testing Tesseras to be het or homo for Motley AND Striped will not be as easy as you may think.
Why is MY Tessera unlike the expected described phenotype? Is Aztec the culprit, or how will Borderless change Tesseras pattern, if at all? If recessive genes like Motley and Striped can change Tesseras pattern, then other genes that normally go UNNOTICED can as well. Tessera X Okeetee, Tessera X Aztec and Tessera X Borderless, may have different results. I still have a lot of questions about Tessera phenotypes when matched up to their genetic make up.
Tessera is dominant, that is all that I really care about at the moment and the cause of its popularity. It helps that they look GREAT and the gene is brand spanking new. How Motley, Striped and Diffused effect the Tessera Pattern will be very interesting to learn and prove out, but it is not what makes Tessera special. Tessera is special all by itself.
Mixing Tessera with all of our other Corn Snake genes is going to be the fun part for me and take me half the normal time to see my hard work pay off. For someone just getting into the hobby that wants to breed, Tessera would be my recommendation. I know they are more expensive, but seeing your hard work pay off in two years, and then big in four years, is definitely better than easily DOUBLE the time in the past. Most newer hobbyists just do not have that much dedication yet. With a Tessera, you can reproduce Tessera in two years and with the right secret plan, everybody has the chance to produced a new one of a kind Tessera Morph in four years that nobody else in the entire world has seen before.
Tessera is the first obvious dominant pattern gene. I am lucky to have bred Salmon Boas and other Boas with dominant genes, so understanding how it is inherited is easy for me. Boas also have many recessive genes to mix with the dominant ones, so understanding how they mix has already been figured out and I have experience with them.
When we bred Tessera X Normal Pattern, we are actually breeding a Het Tessera X homo Normal, or Tess/N x N/N, The results are 50% Tesseras Tes/N (Het Tess) and 50% Normals N/N. We all want to know if there is a “Super” Tessera. Genetically, I don’t see how homo Tessera , Tes/Tes, will not be produced. It only takes one copy of the Tessera gene to make Tessera because it is dominant, instead of two copies like with recessive genes. Only one parent needs to carry the Tessera gene to make Tessera offspring. With recessive genes, both parents need to carry the gene to reproduce the morph.
Will there be visual differences between homo Tessera and het Tessera, that will give us the Super Morph? In boas, it can be obvious, or like with Salmon Boas, the two phenotypes are very similar and I can not tell them apart.
The questions I still have about Tessera with Motley and/or Striped in the mix, is the possibility of four different phenotypes. Het Tessera, homo Tessera, homo Tessera Motley and homo Tessera Striped. We could add homo Tessera Bloodred to the list. Since Tessera is dominant, testing for Motley will not be the same as testing for Motley like we have done before with Normal Pattern.
It is possible to breed Tessera het Motley X Motley and produce 50% Tessera looking pheno and 50% Motley looking phenos, with no Normals in the clutch. We would be expecting a half a clutch, or quarter to be Normal Phase. We may only get one Normal, or two, but maybe NONE, all of which would be confusing. What about Tessera Motley X Motley, or Tessera Motley X het Motley, if we don‘t already KNOW that the Tessera is in fact homo for Motley. Since we may not know what a Super Tessera looks like visual identification may be difficult.
Since Tessera and Motley phenos look similar, there could be some difficult identifying which is which. (It may be easier than I think, like I said, I have NO experience with Tessera ) Trying to identify Tessera, Tessera Motleys, Tessera Stripes, and possible Super Tesseras VISUALLY, is prone to the same misidentifications as with Striped Bloods. Testing Tesseras to be het or homo for Motley AND Striped will not be as easy as you may think.
Why is MY Tessera unlike the expected described phenotype? Is Aztec the culprit, or how will Borderless change Tesseras pattern, if at all? If recessive genes like Motley and Striped can change Tesseras pattern, then other genes that normally go UNNOTICED can as well. Tessera X Okeetee, Tessera X Aztec and Tessera X Borderless, may have different results. I still have a lot of questions about Tessera phenotypes when matched up to their genetic make up.
Tessera is dominant, that is all that I really care about at the moment and the cause of its popularity. It helps that they look GREAT and the gene is brand spanking new. How Motley, Striped and Diffused effect the Tessera Pattern will be very interesting to learn and prove out, but it is not what makes Tessera special. Tessera is special all by itself.
Mixing Tessera with all of our other Corn Snake genes is going to be the fun part for me and take me half the normal time to see my hard work pay off. For someone just getting into the hobby that wants to breed, Tessera would be my recommendation. I know they are more expensive, but seeing your hard work pay off in two years, and then big in four years, is definitely better than easily DOUBLE the time in the past. Most newer hobbyists just do not have that much dedication yet. With a Tessera, you can reproduce Tessera in two years and with the right secret plan, everybody has the chance to produced a new one of a kind Tessera Morph in four years that nobody else in the entire world has seen before.
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
It looks to have dominant yellow, so I would go with a Caramel line and common combos like Butter, Amber or Goldust.
Since we have Tessera with hets, but they are unknown to us, part of the fun, will be figuring it out, with HUGE rewards.
zorro
Old Guy
I agree, just to let everyone know, there has not been a super form yet, but doesn't mean one might show up. Also in breedings of diffused to tessera, f1's do not show any of the diffused traits.
Here are some pics, the first I have already posted is a tessera het blood and my cayenne fire. The second is a striped tessera and the third and fourth are what Don (SMR) believes are motley tesseras because of the black borders on the motley pattern that you don't normally see on motleys but that do share the lack of pattern on the sides. Only the first pic is mine the last 3 are by permission from Don@ South Mountain Reptiles.
John
Striped Tessera
Motley Tessera
Motley Tessera
SickPyth7
Snakes
No I didn't mean Striped Tesseras....I meant Stripes and Tesseras in the same clutch.
Per Don S (SMR) website:
"In 2008, I bred a male phenotype to three normal-looking females, one being het for Stripe, and two normal corns, het for no known mutations. In the first brood were Tesseras, Okeetees, Stripes, and Motleys; but no Striped Motleys. In the next two broods from two sister Okeetees having no familial mutant relatives, roughly 50% of the progeny were Tesseras, and all others were Okeetees"
SickPyth7
Snakes
And on that note...isn't it possible that Tessera could be related to Stripes and Motleys, but just on a different level? Simple because of what I just posted of Don's website.
zorro
Old Guy
I guess it's possible, talking to Don yesterday, he felt that some of the tesseras out there are het for stripe. I think there is still a lot of experimenting to do with the tesseras.
John
SickPyth7
Snakes
I agree...at the same time though, many Tesseras out there are carrying unknown hets. Look at Joe Pierce's his is unknown. Which is awsome! I'd love to know that mine has something going on too! The study and research of it all... I'd have to say is what makes this morph so much fun, don't you?
SickPyth7
Snakes
I think I'm going to test it myself along with... I'm sure...most of the other 1st-timer Tessera breeders out there.
Everything Tessera I plan to document, I think theres more to Tessera than meets the eye.
zorro
Old Guy
Hey Justin,
Back farther up on Don's website did you read:
"Long story short; in 2007, I acquired an intriguing corn snake from Graham Criglow he was mistakenly told was a Striped Okeetee. The three unusual corns Graham purchased appeared to be Striped Motley Okeetees, but the paradox was that the founding mutation was Striped; not Motley. These F2s Graham received were expected to be Striped, since they were produced from Striped x Okeetee corns. In addition, the conspicuous solid black scales in all Tesseras is remarkable, considering that even the slightest presence of black is rare (nearly unique) in Motley types. Graham gave me a male, and I immediately began breeding trials.
This was confirmed by Don today, the grandparents of the first tesseras were a striped corn X okeetee so I guess everyone of the tesseras out there have a chance to be het striped.
It only gets better from here.
John
Back farther up on Don's website did you read:
"Long story short; in 2007, I acquired an intriguing corn snake from Graham Criglow he was mistakenly told was a Striped Okeetee. The three unusual corns Graham purchased appeared to be Striped Motley Okeetees, but the paradox was that the founding mutation was Striped; not Motley. These F2s Graham received were expected to be Striped, since they were produced from Striped x Okeetee corns. In addition, the conspicuous solid black scales in all Tesseras is remarkable, considering that even the slightest presence of black is rare (nearly unique) in Motley types. Graham gave me a male, and I immediately began breeding trials.
This was confirmed by Don today, the grandparents of the first tesseras were a striped corn X okeetee so I guess everyone of the tesseras out there have a chance to be het striped.
It only gets better from here.
John
SickPyth7
Snakes
So the Striped mixed with Okeetee created the Tessera or was the Striped corn origionally a un-named Tessera?
I only ask because I do not understand how a Okeetee (wild type mutation) bred with a recessive trait (Stripe) can produce a dominant trait. Does anyone have pictures of the grandparents that created the F1's which then created the F2's that Graham aquired? I trust all origional parties who started the Tesseras I'm just learning the history, for the science of it
zorro
Old Guy
So the Striped mixed with Okeetee created the Tessera or was the Striped corn origionally a un-named Tessera?
I only ask because I do not understand how a Okeetee (wild type mutation) bred with a recessive trait (Stripe) can produce a dominant trait. Does anyone have pictures of the grandparents that created the F1's which then created the F2's that Graham aquired? I trust all origional parties who started the Tesseras I'm just learning the history, for the science of it
Hopefully Graham will tell the story cause he was the one who bought the originals from another person.
John
SickPyth7
Snakes
Hey Zorro thank you. I bought my lovely gem from Graham so I'll send him an email. thanks again
StrangeCargo
New member
The guy we got the orig animals from sold them as "Striped Okeetees"...he was a florida breeder who is no longer keeping snakes. He's been contacted multiple times to try and fill in more details but he never does/hard to get any replies from him... Don Soderberg contacted him to try and get the complete history (or his version) for the new upcoming cornsnake book but the guy blew hhim off- claimed he threw his harddrive into a lake... ???? strange huh? I think Don's version of thier history on his website tells about everything we know...
Anyways, he did send up pics-- that was years ago. I lost them in a computer crash. They were small fuzzy pics...hard to see alot... I REALLY WISH those pics were still around. Plus at the time I didn't expect them to be anything more than a striped okeetee project (y'all know how I love my okeetees).
Anyways, he did send up pics-- that was years ago. I lost them in a computer crash. They were small fuzzy pics...hard to see alot... I REALLY WISH those pics were still around. Plus at the time I didn't expect them to be anything more than a striped okeetee project (y'all know how I love my okeetees).
zorro
Old Guy
Don told me today that he threw the harddrive into the lake and got rid of all his snakes cause the city he was living in banned all snakes, and yes it is wierd!
John