F/T vs. Live Debate

Originally Posted by starsevol

Nope. He just LOVES risking injury to his animal under the guise of "natural".

you know what, im not gonna even try to argue with you.
No, you won't get me to continue the last argument we last started as already stated talking with you is useless, So do yourself a favour and stop wasting bytes trying to make me look like the bad guy, and as last time try to respect everyone like i do. cheers !

Originally Posted by DarkSmoke

you know what, im not gonna even try to argue with you.
No, you won't get me to continue the last argument we last started as already stated talking with you is useless, So do yourself a favour and stop wasting bytes trying to make me look like the bad guy, and as last time try to respect everyone like i do. cheers !

No way do you respect your snake....
you ARE the bad guy.

Originally Posted by starsevol

No way do you respect your snake....
you ARE the bad guy.

yes i am , i have many names, "Mr Evil, Evil King, Frieza, Devimon, Dr Bad" just to name a few muahahhaha.

Originally Posted by DarkSmoke

yes i am , i have many names, "Mr Evil, Evil King, Frieza, Devimon, Dr Bad" just to name a few muahahhaha.

Anyone who feeds live when they don't have to is a piece of crap keeper, and in my opinion just half a notch above a pedophile. I detest people who do what you do for fun....

You have no business keeping any living thing...

Originally Posted by DarkSmoke

dogs a'int an evolution, dogs are a lot of breeds made by humans from wolves. they didn't evolve to eat trash , the stray ones do it to survive. They are still listed under the order Carnivora , they are true carnivores.

after dogs started evolving then man started selective breeding them to come up with the different breeds
if they are true carnivores why do they eat all kinds of garbage and non meat items? you say to survive? snakes don't eat veggies to survive, if there is no meat to eat they dont start experimenting with fruits and veggies and grains and cereals, they just die

Darksmoke, it's nice to know that when you're provided with a valid point making your argument wrong, you just decide to stop talking, but don't change your mind. Very mature.

I agree with starsevol, obviously. lol

Originally Posted by gelshark

after dogs started evolving then man started selective breeding them to come up with the different breeds
if they are true carnivores why do they eat all kinds of garbage and non meat items? you say to survive? snakes don't eat veggies to survive, if there is no meat to eat they dont start experimenting with fruits and veggies and grains and cereals, they just die

I think he's thinking of cats, which are obligate carnivores, rather than dogs, which were scavengers (eating mostly animals, but also carrion and plant life when it was available... makes sense evolution-wise, why waste energy hunting and chasing down a rabbit when there's a dead one and some grass right next to you?) long before we domesticated them. Dogs are adapted to eat damn near anything to survive.

Originally Posted by VickyChaiTea

Darksmoke, it's nice to know that when you're provided with a valid point making your argument wrong, you just decide to stop talking, but don't change your mind. Very mature.

I agree with starsevol, obviously. lol

there's a reason i stoped talking with starsevol. last post we argued it continuedfor hours and yet to no point. The only target in his mind is to continue to say "your wrong" and he doesn't care to reason it. Whats the point in repeting the whole process? he wants it, but he just wants to continue saying im wrong and a maniac whatever plessure it gives them. Sorry , i don't know if you meant that im mature by sarcasm, maybe im not but i don't care arguing with angry depresed guys. To say the truth i tried argumenting many times on this forums to no reason since my opinion never counted and there was only one person who gave me a bit of credit and teached me to ignore certain people. And i found it as the best way now. i have a list in my mind. and when ever i post to help someone and someome from that list jumps in on me i will ignore him. Well i agree im not yet that good at it since i still answered to this guy but well, still in training!

Dogs have been evolving from millions of years ago but there evolution stoped at wolves, foxes, and other canines. the domestic dog was created by us humans from mix breeding of those canines. For those saying cats are true carnivores, there dried food is still not 100% meat and containes veggs, then it should kill them. Of course it will not! they still have the correct enzymes in their stomach acid to digest and the reason is simple, then they eat ther carcass they will contain some veggies and things. Lets not try to compare reptiles to mammals. we all know there digestive systems are way different especialy in snakes wich are unique so not even comparing them to other reptiles makes sense, let alone to mammals.

The dogs digestive system is made straight, to quickly digest meat and bones so even the way there digestive system is shows they're carnivores unlike our digestive system which shows were omnivores. even their teeth shows they're carnivores unlike ours which show were omnivores.

the thing is this is subject were science won't help, this is a big buisness made by the dog food people.2days before i got him i started reading about them and when i was reading posts and blogs from 10year breeders and such people i was like what are they saying! i never heard of this. in my country its very rare to see raw diets they believe it makes them bloodthirsty animals. But i decided to give it a try since i tough its useless for all these people to lie about it. after a Week feeding him raw meaty bones and other meat there were the efffects : whitened teeth, mouth getting pinkier, doggy smell gone, bad mouth smell gone. I was amazed!!

from my part i dont have more to say im not a scientist nore a vet its just looking at a dog its common sense that they're carnivores. but instead of asking me question i can tell you that there are many vets supporting this and the internet is full of info, if im not wrong it was Dr Ian billinghurst who first started supporting this. as a fact i don't even know how this discussion ended up on dogs since from my original big long post there were maybe 2 sentences concerning dog., anyway thats the way i think it and its by proof so you can do your searches for info like i did,.

Darksmoke, stop. Just stop. You clearly are highly misinformed about domestic animals. Dogs were not created from mixed breeding of different canine families. They're wolves that evolved over the last several thousand years to be able to cohabitate with human populations readily. The early evolution was primarily accidental, and only later became purposeful. Most "breeds" are actually extremely modern... as in only a few centuries old. There are, of course, older 'breeds' out there, but the vast majority of purposefully made ones are recent.

Cats are obligate carnivores. That does NOT mean plants will kill them. Please don't actually be that naive to use such an obvious straw man argument. They would naturally consume the gut contents of their prey and thus have some contact with plant materials. However, unlike dogs, humans, and most other carnivorous or omnivorous animals, they cannot create certain needed amino acids out of other ones. Arachadonic acid and Taurine are found in those forms specifically in meat, not plants. Thus, a cat *needs* meat in order to survive, and needs significant quantities of it. This is what makes them an obligate carnivore. Their gut is also very short, showing their primarily meat-based diet. Humans and dogs, being more omnivorous, have intestines better adapted to dealing with a mix of vegetable and animal foodstuffs.