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General Chit-Chat Forum Discussion about general topics that are really off topic concerning corn snakes, or just about any old chit at all.

Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:34 AM   #91
Drizzt80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComoxCorn View Post
It targets Mexicans.
. . . who are in this country illegally. You forgot that part.

I guess when I read articles like this http://www.sltrib.com/Nation%20and%20World/ci_14982346 I'm okay with needing to provide identification showing US citizenship. Of course, I'm just a naive, middle aged overweight, bald white guy. Last I checked though, naive, middle aged overweight bald white guys weren't illegally crossing the border in Arizona, or Texas, or New Mexico, or California.

But it's okay because "those people" are doing the jobs that others don't want do. Notice it's "don't want to do", not "can't" do. If the pompous, unemployed, lazy, able, legal citizens of the US would get off the teat and show some integrity, those jobs would get filled.

Speaking of integrity, when did it become okay to break the law?? I don't care if your speeding, stealing, or sneaking across the border. When did it become okay to break the law??

D80
 
Old 04-29-2010, 09:49 AM   #92
tsst
Let me pretext this by saying I think we do need immigration reform.

Before this law a routine traffic stop that succeeded in catching an illegal resulted in reporting them to immigration authorities who did nothing about it. That is why we have millions of illegals here now. The fed was not doing their job. There are some things we should expect from the federal gov, like border control. Instead they are too busy trying to micromanage healthcare or who can marry whom or owning large portions of failing big businesses. Most of which should be state functions or citizens responsibility, so the state of AZ was forced to try and do the feds job that they were not doing.

It is not targeted at Latinos, it is targeting ILLEGAL immigrants crossing the border ILLEGALLY in AZ. There are between 11-13 million Mexicans illegally in this country. Who should they be targeting, 85 year old white grannys from Kansas?

Any LEO harassing a legal resident for no reason should absolutely be held accountable. But implying that AZ shouldn't even try to control crime in their state, because there is a chance that a US resident being asked for proof of legality would be offended, is fatuous. I am the last person that wants more laws and less freedom. But allowing 13 million people to break existing federal law under the pretense that someone may be offended seems near laughable to me.

I would be more apt to visit AZ after the law takes effect. Maybe it won't be quite the free flow super highway for the drug cartels and the crime that comes with it. I feel for the folks in southern California!
 
Old 04-29-2010, 10:22 AM   #93
Nroc
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComoxCorn View Post
Are all immigrants in Arizona required to carry their immigration papers? I know here in Canada it is not a requirement that you carry those papers with you 24/7.

If I am not mistaken, Federal law requires that you have "your papers" on you at all times as an immigrant. Furthermore, it requires that an immigration officer can ask you for them at anytime.

The AZ law takes this a step further. Now, local police can also ask you for "your papers" if they suspect you of being an illegal immigrant. Employers can also get in trouble for hiring illegals to work.

Already, many illegals are no longer lingering in Home Depot parking lots looking for day-labor work. The law doesn't go into effect until this summer, and already, illegal immigrants are leaving AZ to find work elsewhere.

This will eventually lead to more jobs for AZ citizens. It's a good law...even if a particular ethnic group seems to be singled out.
 
Old 04-29-2010, 10:32 AM   #94
jpccusa
But, AZ passing this law not only doesn't solve the problem of the 11-13 million illegal immigrants (not only Mexicans Tsst) already here, it causes a problem in other states due to exodus, and it jeopardizes the well being of their own legal citizens, as I mentioned my friends in the OP.

BTW, I feel the need to clarify I don't think it is okay to break laws (even though I sometimes break a few and hope to not get caught doing it).
 
Old 04-29-2010, 10:39 AM   #95
airenlow
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpccusa View Post
...it causes a problem in other states due to exodus...
Then neighboring states need to pass similar laws to protect themselves? Force illegals back to Mexico, Canada, Cuba, wherever...
 
Old 04-29-2010, 10:40 AM   #96
jpccusa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nroc View Post
This will eventually lead to more jobs for AZ citizens.
Like Brent said, people would need to "get off the teat and show some integrity" in order to have those jobs filled. The problem is many won't do it. They will be a shortage of manual labor, and the price for the few existing ones will be much higher than what we are used to see. Talking about the real state crisis, forget about remodeling your house any time soon. And in that same token, groceries will be more expensive as well, which doesn't help in this economy either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nroc View Post
It's a good law...even if a particular ethnic group seems to be singled out.
WHAT?!?!?! The way I read this is "It is a good law even though a particular ethnic group will be discriminated against.
That is like saying "Racism is okay in some circumstances," am I wrong?
 
Old 04-29-2010, 10:43 AM   #97
SnakeAround
Would the people whom are against this law feel better if cops would ask any random race of citizen for their papers to obtain a reasonable mix of races in their sample and spend way more time to eventually find the illegal people? Then they would be called inefficient, right? Do those people also think using profiling expertise to find a killer is discriminating? Of course this is an extreme example, but you get my point? It's a way to be efficient in what they are doing.

Over here in Holland people are obliged to show papers for identification first time a cop asks for it, but they should only ask for it when there is a reason for suspicioun, I think just like AZ's new law. I'm not sure about why the law was signed a couple of years ago, but I think it had to do with terrorism. They mostly use it to identify people whom could be needed as a witness in case of an accident or fight or such. Further, for example a person involved in a fight can be taken to a police station when he is not carrying ID papers, which makes it easier to investigate what is going on.
 
Old 04-29-2010, 10:44 AM   #98
jpccusa
Quote:
Originally Posted by airenlow View Post
Then neighboring states need to pass similar laws to protect themselves? Force illegals back to Mexico, Canada, Cuba, wherever...
1- That would require all the states to pass similar laws
2- That won't solve the problem of 11-13 million currently here. Like I said in a previous post, they would rather risk being nicely asked for their documents than going back to where they came from. It is simply unrealistic to think otherwise.
 
Old 04-29-2010, 10:49 AM   #99
Drizzt80
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpccusa View Post
Like Brent said, people would need to "get off the teat and show some integrity" in order to have those jobs filled.
That's a whole different issue whereby the teat also needs to be removed. The bird needs to be shoved from the nest. The hatchling needs to fend for itself. I guarantee, you remove the teat and those jobs will be filled. Period. Or, they'll go somewhere else and it becomes someone else's burden until they also wisen up.

D80
 
Old 04-29-2010, 10:49 AM   #100
SnakeAround
It's not the being asked, but the being caught being illegal they should fear.... people with the right papers are not the target, nor should they be afraid. The goal is to scare the people without the right papers being asked for them with the risk of being caught....
 

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