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General Chit-Chat Forum Discussion about general topics that are really off topic concerning corn snakes, or just about any old chit at all.

Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:04 PM   #11
jpccusa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanci View Post
As I understand it, police will just ask for proof of citizenship when interacting with a person for some other reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsst View Post
I could be wrong but I think the new law states it is secondary. Meaning they have to be stopped for another reason like running a stop sign before they can be asked. They just can't walk up and harass for no reason.
We all know how that goes... The police can stop anyone for any reason. My friend got stopped in the past for "following too close" a police car. He swears he was being profiled for being Latino since the distance between his car and the police car was enough. I believe him since I don't see a reason why he would be tailgating a patrol car. ;-)
 
Old 04-28-2010, 03:36 PM   #12
Nova_C
What about third or fourth generation Latin citizens? Or the fact that the government said it wasn't racial, but how people were dressed (WTF?) that was going to be the deciding factor? Remember that 'reasonable suspicion' is extremely vague, so police can justify stopping whoever they want, even people whose parents were born in the US, let alone themselves, and if you don't have ID on you, welp, off to jail until you can prove it's okay you're in the United States.

This law is ridiculous, and I'm glad that there is a movement to boycott Arizona as a tourist destination. Sheriff Joe was bad enough.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 03:53 PM   #13
Nanci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily1188 View Post
This law is inherently racial... in theory it might be all fine and dandy but in enforcement, it will be discriminatory.
Law enforcement is by its nature discriminatory. It discriminates against people breaking the law.

And do you think there are that many blond Germans living illegally in AZ?
 
Old 04-28-2010, 04:00 PM   #14
Buzzard
This law rocks.

I however have not read it all but understand that you must do something like run a light and/or break a law for them to legally check your ID.

I also think states should take more responsibility for what goes on in there state. So kudos to Az for sticking up for themselves.

I am sure there are some hard working, good illegals. But just like my great grandfather there is system that is in place to become a legal US citizen. I have a friend from Mexico that did it the right way. Him and his wife work hard and he recieved his citizen ship just this past year. I also have a Canadian friend in Pasco county FL. He to is here the right way. His brother however was deported back to Canada, after not wanting to go through the loops to become a citizen.

The illegals that come over are taking American jobs and the men and women who hire them are not claiming them therefore breaking the law too. So in my eyes illegals are illegals.
My wife was sued by an illegal after the illegal ran a red light T-boning my wife in an F250. Flipping the truck 2 times. Oh the illegal was driving a compact car. The women broke a leg and arm. She was charged for reckless driving and running the light and the accident. Oh and no DL. Went to the hospital recieved awesome care (Tampa General). Then released, has never paid the bill. and then hired some crackhead lawyer to sue my wife. Never was arrested, or checked. Finally after almost 6 years they have dropped the suit. She was found to be an illegal. Still never paid the hosptial bills ( I am sure we all paid it, for her, in some way), and was arrested and deported..... The 6 years of trama that my wife and I went through all the lawyer bill, time missed from work for lawyer visits ...I think you get the picture... I wont harp anymore but I will say this...

I have lots of friends of every color and creed. I will respect everyone if they follow the law. Immigration has laws for a reason and that is to protect us(Americans). If you want in our country to live and have a life that is awesome. Welcome to our country. Just do it the right way!!!
 
Old 04-28-2010, 04:01 PM   #15
jpccusa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanci View Post
Law enforcement is by its nature discriminatory. It discriminates against people breaking the law.
Add to that a law which allows them to discriminate also based on race and voilą! - disastrous consequences and lawsuits that will be costly to the state (aka, its legal citizens).
 
Old 04-28-2010, 04:05 PM   #16
wstphal
The issue I see is how is a LEO supposed to recognize the difference between a US born Latino citizen or a Latino with a green card and a Latino here illegally? It's going to end up with racial profiling, if you look Latino they will ask for your papers. I agree illegal immigration is a huge issue, but this isn't the way to solve it. I suspect that AZ politicians KNOW that & are trying to put pressure on the Feds to do something about illegal immigrants by embarassing the Feds with this law.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 04:10 PM   #17
jpccusa
Buzzard, I must say that the immigration system is broken and the legal process sometimes is just unattainable to the majority, specially if immigration is time sensitive to those applying for a visa.
Also, visa quotas get in the way of those wanting to immigrate from countries which are already well represented here (Brazil, Canada, China (mainland-born), Colombia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Poland, South Korea, United Kingdom (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories, and Vietnam).
 
Old 04-28-2010, 04:14 PM   #18
susang
My husband could be stopped his brother lives in Arizona and could be stopped dark skin, dark hair, dark eyes, half Hispanic. This law is wrong it is racial profiling, it is racist, it stinks of Nazi Germany. Since I have blond hair and blue eyes I guess I wouldn't have to worry, but the fact that some do makes me ill.
Maybe all non Americans, like Canadians, European immigrants should have to wear a patch to show their ethnicity. Maybe the next step is religious insignias.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 04:24 PM   #19
Emily1188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanci View Post
Law enforcement is by its nature discriminatory. It discriminates against people breaking the law.

And do you think there are that many blond Germans living illegally in AZ?
Quote:
Discrimination: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination
That's the functioning definition of discrimination that I'm using - the sociological, anthropological, and legal definition.

Sorry, law is about individual merit (or should be), so it is not discriminatory. That is the problem here.

To be clear, discrimination refers to action, while prejudice refers to philosophy. While theoretically, it's not a prejudiced law, in practice, it will be discriminatory. I'm not in danger of being constantly stopped and asked to show my birth certificate and neither is any other white person. Latinos, on the other hand, REGARDLESS OF THEIR ACTUAL LEGAL STATUS, are. That makes it discriminatory.

I seriously have a hard time fathoming how anybody could support this appalling piece of legislation. But gee, what do I know? I just think that being able to be pulled over because you're brown, or speaking Spanish, or dressed a certain way, is wrong.

I would kill to know exactly what "reasonable suspicion" is, too.

Nanci, I have no clue how many blonde Germans live here illegally and neither to do you. But I do know THEY won't be getting stopped. And that's wrong... except that they bother us less because they're white like us, and more similar culturally.

I wonder what group is least likely to have auto-insurance... hmmm... We should definitely have police start pulling them over if they have reasonable suspicion that they're uninsured. In fact, which group is most likely to have illegal firearms? There should be a "reasonable suspicion" law for that too. Actually, certain dog breeds are more likely to maul people... Come on, really... how many Labs and Goldens do YOU think attack people? So it's ok if being a certain breed is "reasonable suspicion" of the dog being vicious, right?

Do you support BSL? Would you let a cop stop you on the street and demand you produce a temperament test certificate for Bella, not because she's done anything wrong, but because she's a "pit bull"? Like I said, given the statistics, it IS reasonable suspicion.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 04:30 PM   #20
Buzzard
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpccusa View Post
Buzzard, I must say that the immigration system is broken and the legal process sometimes is just unattainable to the majority, specially if immigration is time sensitive to those applying for a visa.
Also, visa quotas get in the way of those wanting to immigrate from countries which are already well represented here (Brazil, Canada, China (mainland-born), Colombia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Poland, South Korea, United Kingdom (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories, and Vietnam).

Though I understand your point (and profiling will happen). I have nothing wrong with any person in any country, I am well traveled.

This is my point. It is still "illegal". The laws of our country, states, and communities are placed there because at the time this is how we decided it needed to be. Yes there is fault in some laws in almost every community but its the law. Yes, vote them to be changed and changed people minds. Live with it, vote to change it, boycott if you must. Laws are there for a reason.
 

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