Roy Munson
New member
Yes, it's definitely love. Kings don't always eat corns. I guess for now you're pro-cohab for kings and corns!1!! :dancer:
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Is it ok to house two snakes together?
- Thread starter beethoven
- Start date
tyflier
[Insert Witty Commentary]
Don't confuse it..the RISKS are an absolute fact...the CHOICE is an opinion. Yes, you are correct...there is only one way to guarantee no risks of co-habbing, and that is by not co-habbing. That does NOT mean that co-habbing without issue is impossible, it ONLY means that there will ALWAYS be risks associated with it, and your snakes will always and forever be AT risk because of it...but it is possible that they can still live a long life without issue during it. There is a difference.I don't agree with comments such as "there's no set thing" and "it's all just opinion". We're not talking about whether apple pie is tastier than pumpkin pie. There's only ONE way to avoid the risks associated with cohabitation: don't do it. That's not opinion; it's fact. But heck, I've only kept hundreds of corn snakes for 23 years. What do I know?
Corns need appropriate heat to digest. This is an indisputable fact. The manner in which one achieves this heat is purely a matter of opinion and experimentation.
Corns need an escape proof enclosure. Again...indisputable fact. The manner in which one makes their enclosure escape proof is left open to opinion and ingenuity...or experimentation.
Your other examples, Dean...HIV and unprotected sex, driving while intoxicated, etc...all of these are indisputably risky endeavors. However...not everyone that participates in these endeavors suffers the consequences everytime. The RISKS are fact...the choice is an opinion. That's not to say that I think people should perform such ridiculous activities...just that people do, without consequences, all the time...much like co-habbing. It doesn't make it smart...just possible...
Rich in KY wrote:
I NEVER said co-habbing was bad...I said it was risky...and it is. However, it is also done successfully. How, I wonder?? Through experimentation. If someone is willing to invest the time, effort, and risk...they can find a succesful way to co-hab.
What I mean is...we know certain facts about what is required for cornsnakes to thrive in captivity, and these requirements are not debateable. Without them...your snake dies. What we preach and practice as general husbandry skills and care guidelines is nothing more than a series of best guesses and assumptions on the best way to achieve these necessities. Only through experimentation have we learned what we know...and only through experimentation will we ever know if things can be done better, more efficiently, more cheaply, etc.
I don't think people that co-hab deserve some of the "lashing" that they recieve. I don't agree with co-habbing because, IMO...the risks are far greater than the benefits make reasonable. But that is ONLY MY OPINION, and may not be the same opinion for everyone...obviously. All anyone can do is provide the facts, present the risk factors, and state their opinion. If someone chooses to ignore those facts or factors...that is their decision to make. They have decided that the benefits outweigh the risks. OK. So what? It isn't your snake, it isn't my snake...it is THEIR SNAKE...so let them, if that is their choice. It really seems quite simple, to me. There really doesn't seem to be any reason for chastising someone based on their opinion in this matter. There really doesn't seem to be a reason for continual brow-bashing of "co-habbers".
Yes...state your opinion. Yes...state the factual and true risks involved. Yes...inform someone that their choice puts their snakes at risk. What more can be said? What more Should be said? They aren't your snakes...it isn't your choice. Do we really need the lambasting from BOTH sides everytime the topic comes up? Do we really need the implied insults from BOTH sides every time the topic is raised? I simply don't think we do...:shrugs:
snakewispera snr
The Devils Advocate
It's time to put this thread to bed. Go to Elle's post on Windsors R.I. They only fed a couple of snakes and nearly managed to wipe out a nice collection.
If she had been co-habiting she would of lost the lot.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that. So no matter how you try and paint it co-habiting is an unnecessary risk. And there ain't no argument to say otherwise. I rest my case.
MIKE
If she had been co-habiting she would of lost the lot.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that. So no matter how you try and paint it co-habiting is an unnecessary risk. And there ain't no argument to say otherwise. I rest my case.
MIKE
beaniebopps
Beanie
Well that gave me a good laugh this morning thanks!
I am certainly NOT pro cohab, I was just merely pointing out some experienced people choose to do it, and that doesn't mean they don't look after their snakes brilliantly in all other aspects. So don't jump on EVERYONE who does it and assume they are bad corn snake owners..
Oh and a question - I take it in the wild the mother snake leaves the eggs once shes layed them? I genuinely wasn't sure, their behaviour in the wild isn't something I pretend to know a lot about.
Roy Munson
New member
I don't think I confused anything, Chris. My point was that "it's all just opinion" is a statement I don't agree with, especially if it's not qualified. Choices may be made based on opinions, but I believe that there is a difference between choices and opinions. Maybe there are more opinions being debated here than you or I are acknowledging. I find some of these opinions to be untenable. If your opinion is that cohabbing is ok because your two new snakes, the first you've ever owned, have eaten their first meal without incident, I don't value that opinion much. Now if someone like Bitsy opines that she has cohabbed carefully selected and monitored groups of corns for ten years without incident, and that the practice is reasonable under those circumstances, then I value that opinion. But most of the people around here who crusade for cohabbing are just people who are too lazy or cheap to provide separate housing. They accept the risks because it's convenient for them, and their snakes are disposable anyway. Fact or opinion? You decide.
beaniebopps said:
You're welcome (for the laugh).
I don't jump on EVERYONE who does it. I've done it. But if you've owned snakes for all of a week and a half and you want to come on here defending a controversial practice because you've had no problems in your vast 10 days of experience, I think your opinion is pretty much invalid. You may even get "jumped on". :shrugs:
And yes, in the wild, the mother snake leaves the eggs.
jazzgeek
The Rule Of Thirds.
Snark all you want, Dean, but the question remains:
Can I cohabitate my two dogs on that busy street?
:sidestep:
regards,
jazz
tyflier
[Insert Witty Commentary]
I see your point, and I agree that there ARE a variety of "opinions" that aren't being acknolwedged. True to my usual form(which is not necessarily a good thing), I spoke in referance to people making conscious decisions based on qualified experience, and completely ignored the other end of the spectrum, which you pointed out.
Of course I do not hold any value for the people that "spout off" with all of a weeks worth of worldly experience. It would be ludicrous to do so...but I see where my statements could be mistaken as accepting those opinions as valid. This is why I made the statement earlier in the topic that the phrase "I've had no problems" really has no place in this topic, because the risks never go away. And Joe Schmoe down the road that has had 2 snakes for 3 weeks in a 10 gallon aquarium has no business telling anyone that it's OK to co-hab based on his "experience".
Nor is it "acceptable", IMO, for anyone to simply say "it's OK to co-hab" without acknowledging any risks, or worse...disregarding the risks, or stating that the risks are not as bad as people make it seem, when we all know that these statements simply are not true. It is reasonable on the part of experienced keepers to inform new comers of the risks involved and to inform them that these risks are inherant, never go away, can prove fatal(in more than one way), and cannot be reasonably assessed nor controlled by an inexperienced keeper.
But I still don't think all of the "aggression" that is displayed is necessary. I see alot of people confusing "passion" with "aggression" and getting downright rude or mean to people over these choices. And it happens from both sides of the debate. That gets old rather quickly. I don't like reading, "Co-habbing will kill your snakes. Period. End of discussion. Here is a picture for proof." nor do I like reading, "Co-habbing is fine, I've been doing it for 20 years. Period. End of discussion. Here's a picture of my snakes cuddling as proof." Both statements are very closed-minded, and don't leave any room for reasonable discussion. Both statements also come across as arrogant and aggressive towards anyone with a different point of view(better choice of words than "opinion"?).
But then again...you "know" me well enough to know that I don't like such closed-mindedness in ANY topical debate...so that last paragraph shouldn't be a surprise. You also know I have the utmost respect for you and your opinions and experience...FWIW...
tyflier
[Insert Witty Commentary]
Yes, but only if you provide identical resources on both ends of their enclosure. You can't give one a fire hydrant and the other a rose bush. Those things hurt to pee on...:rofl:
susang
New member
Well if nothing else this thread starts my day with a laugh.
I will say last night in chat someone talked about seeing a group of hatchlings co-habbed in a pet store. There was a regurged snake and another snake that had visibly just eaten another snake. I'm hoping this person will post pics taken. susang
I will say last night in chat someone talked about seeing a group of hatchlings co-habbed in a pet store. There was a regurged snake and another snake that had visibly just eaten another snake. I'm hoping this person will post pics taken. susang
rolandslf
New member
Please take some advice from a foolish idiot.
When the cohab issue first raised its head I was one who argued rather viciferously in favour of cohabbing. This up until a Hatchling I had force fed for 5 months was one night eaten by its sibling.
After all my time, effort and tears with this little guy, what a way to lose him.
I have each of my 14 snakes now in their own seperate viv. Please also become a convert before it is too late.
Ciao
When the cohab issue first raised its head I was one who argued rather viciferously in favour of cohabbing. This up until a Hatchling I had force fed for 5 months was one night eaten by its sibling.
After all my time, effort and tears with this little guy, what a way to lose him.
I have each of my 14 snakes now in their own seperate viv. Please also become a convert before it is too late.
Ciao
starsevol
Cohabbing is cruelty...
I am so sorry you had to learn this way. And I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you for coming here and telling your story. It might just save someone elses' baby. HUGS
diamondlil
Mice! They taste so nice!
Agreed, takes a big man to admit something like that.
