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Can snakes be fed a vegan diet?

LBoz said:
Becky, YES! She originally had no hair on her ears when I got her, but the vet gave her an antibiotic to treat what appeared to be a secondary infection and had me switch her food. She was fine for a long time but now seems to be having the same issues. Her hair is thinning in her temporal region and along the sides of her face and she has some spots around her mouth. I know that she doesn't have fleas, and I'm seeing no evidence of mites, but I wouldn't know about a fungal infection. There's no fungal type odor in her ears, but that's not a definitive test.

Susan, is a prescription required for that Hills food you suggested? I'd like to avoid another office visit if at all possible and just try a different food first, but I'm not sure if I can just walk in and buy the food.

Thank you both for the help and suggestions!
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The problem originally started on the ear flaps? That is a major sign of Notoedric mange which then spreads to the face and eventually the body. Extremely easy to treat, just a dose of ivermectin now and then again in 2 weeks. It can be administered by injection or orally (Heartgard for cats will probably work) or you can even use Revolution (selemectin) for cats, applied now and then again in 2 weeks. Well worth a try. Since your vet has a record on your cat, you should be able to get the Heartgard or Revolution (my choice) right at the clinic over the counter. The food should also be able to be purchased there if your vet carries Hill's diets. If not, try another clinic. Many vets are lax on the "prescription" part for the diets as it is a little ridiculous. However, you may find a vet that is a stickler for that. Just keep looking until you find it. Petco and PetsMart may even carry it.

LBoz said:
Where do you guys get this "Diamond" brand food? Can you get it at the chain pet stores?
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Diamond food can be found in many pet stores. It is a very good food, but I would avoid lamb and rice diets because "everyone" is making those, people are using them when they don't need to and allergies to lamb and rice are now showing up. The object of a limited ingredient diet is that the protein sources are novel...having never been seen by the immune system of the pet. That way, the body cannot be allergic to it...yet.

People have difficulty understanding what an allergy is. The process is very similar to how vaccines work. The body is exposed to something (allergen or vaccine) and at that time, decides that it doesn't like it. It can't do anything about it the first time except make notes and start production of stuff (such as antibodies) against that foreign (or sometimes not-so-foreign as in the case of an auto-immune disease) substance. The second time the body is exposed, the body's defenses are ready for it and attacks it immediately...your allergic reaction, or as with vaccines, protection against the disease. It is this process that allows veterinarians the ability to not have to test blood types when giving a transfusion. You can use any blood type the first time as the body can't do anything against the different type. But the next time, you must test for if you give the same different type again, the body reacts violently. You can do that in people as well in an emergency situation as long as the person receiving the transfusion has had absolutely no prior exposure to a different blood type.
 
Buzzard said:
Sorry you havent met a sane Vegan.
Just remember not all Vegans are like this. I have Budist friends that are Vegans. They are really great people. Down to earth and dont push there believes on anyone that I am aware of. Just remember sometimes us snake people get classified just like your statement above. All because 1-2 people do/say something stupid....
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I'm not classifying all vegans by that quote, just saying I've yet to meet a sane vegan. Which is completely true. And once I even tried to join Peta just to see what they're all about, and got several personal emails from people who are vegans and a part of Peta having a rant at me because I refuse to turn vegan myself. (I don't eat most meat, just fish, and that's only because I don't like meat, I don't disagree with eating it at all.) I don't think that all vegan people are idiots just because they're vegan, just all the ones that I've met or had contact with are- which is about 20 or so. I'm gonna stop talking now because that's not the issue on this thread!
 
Nanci said:
Why is a wild mouse's life worth less than a domestic mouse? The wild mouse has a home and a family, the food mouse doesn't. If you remove a wild mouse from the population, another is going to take its place. It's not like you can reduce the population except for that one moment.
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It isn't worth less. But the wild mouse is going to be removed from the population anyway, so if I feed a wild mouse I have spared the life of the domestic mouse. One life is lost instead of two.
 
Ssthisto said:
Before you go down the prescription-pet-food route, you COULD try something you're likely to already have at home, given that we're on a snake-based forum here.

Biologically appropriate raw food diet.

Got frozen rodents? See if she'll eat those.
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Didn't somebody, Nanci maybe? do that with a nonfeeder feline? Two of my cats are indicating they want to try the biologically appropriate raw diet! Every time I thaw out moosies they are underfoot, meowing like they are hungry. I swear, one of these days once I have a kingsnake for clean up I will thaw some extras & let the cats try them!
 
There really should be no debate here the thought of feeding or TRYING to feed a snake a vegan diet makes me laugh!
 
Wade, I don't think creamed corn is vegan...

I am reminded of this post from you about a week ago in another thread...

I just want everyone to be careful. The cream in the creamed corn may not be vegan at all. It may have come from an animal.

wade said:
From your description and the 14” size I would say your snake is obviously from 2009, meaning probably only 5 or 6 months old. At that age it should still be eating creamed corn or pureed corn. Anything more substantial than that is surely going to cause an impaction of some kind. The reason you are not seeing feeding lumps the next day is because the pinkies have been elongated as the muscles of the digestive track try to move the solid food down. A snake that age is not able to do that.

Get creamed corn (I prefer Jolly Green Giant brand) and heat it on the stove, not in the microwave. Heat it until it just starts to bubble and then remove it from the heat and allow it to cool to 82* Use a thermometer for this, don’t guess. As soon as it has cooled to the right temp feed it promptly before it cools any more. Offer it to you snake with a brown or black plastic spoon. Metal spoons interfere with the magnetic conflagration of the corn reducing its nutritional value. White plastic seems to scar the snake for some reason.

A snake the size of yours should be eating approximately 4cc of corn per week. Don’t panic if that varies a little from week to week. Once the snake reaches 17 3/8” you may proceed to feed whole corn in the same manner. At that time you can start to supplement with a little crushed mouse juice. Be sure the mice are clean before you crush them.

Hope that helps.
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Katie612 said:
We all have biased opinions and it's not okay to say someone else's bias is wrong just because it's different than yours.
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Really? How about that guy that was tying his wife up and making her nurse hunting puppies. His bias is to use his wife as a cow because he gave his two cows to his father in law in exchange for his wife.

All I not allowed to say that is wrong??

That's the lovely thing about this country (or how it SHOULD be at least). Say whatever you want, a la Pat Robertson, even! But be prepared because just like you have the right to say whatever YOU want... so do I!

Feeding snakes a vegan diet is flipping ridiculous.

Come to that, feeding ANY carnivorous or omnivorous by nature animal a vegan diet is flipping ridiculous.

If you can't handle feeding an appropriate meat based diet, then like Lori said... buy a hamster.

VickyChaiTea said:
I don't know, you still seemed to come off real harsh. And if you really thought this was a troll the best thing would have been to ask a mod to delete the thread/ban the member, not post on said thread.
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That's how this forum rolls. I for one am THANKFUL it isn't like other forums I've been to where moderator and members alike are expected to blow sunshine up the rears of every poster. Honesty is the best policy. Call it like you see it.
 
Hypancistrus said:
Really? How about that guy that was tying his wife up and making her nurse hunting puppies. His bias is to use his wife as a cow because he gave his two cows to his father in law in exchange for his wife.

All I not allowed to say that is wrong??

That's the lovely thing about this country (or how it SHOULD be at least). Say whatever you want, a la Pat Robertson, even! But be prepared because just like you have the right to say whatever YOU want... so do I!

Feeding snakes a vegan diet is flipping ridiculous.

Come to that, feeding ANY carnivorous or omnivorous by nature animal a vegan diet is flipping ridiculous.

If you can't handle feeding an appropriate meat based diet, then like Lori said... buy a hamster.



That's how this forum rolls. I for one am THANKFUL it isn't like other forums I've been to where moderator and members alike are expected to blow sunshine up the rears of every poster. Honesty is the best policy. Call it like you see it.
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You so rock! ((((hugs))))
 
Hypancistrus said:
Come to that, feeding ANY carnivorous or omnivorous by nature animal a vegan diet is flipping ridiculous.
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I'll argue with you on the omnivorous ones. "Omnivorous" animals, by nature, can live on any of a wide variety of foods. Just because an animal *can* eat meat doesn't mean it has to.....
 
wstphal said:
Sorry Susan, I misremembered! I should have searched rather than just posting!:bowdown:
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I'm not upset you didn't remember exactly who it was that did it. I'm actually glad that someone remembered the story in the first place! And to date, the cat is still doing great...eating cat food like a good kitty. But it's an option that everyone in my clinic will remember for future reference in case a similar circumstance come along. I actually need to remember to bring in a mouse or two just to keep on hand in the freezer.
 
amazondoc said:
It isn't worth less. But the wild mouse is going to be removed from the population anyway, so if I feed a wild mouse I have spared the life of the domestic mouse. One life is lost instead of two.
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Except not really because that domestic mouse was bred to be food for another animal and is going to die anyways, whereas the mouse that you have caught from the wild might have managed to survive longer, and raise more offspring which you have subsequently prevented it from doing. *Maybe* it would have been taken by a predator before hand, but that cannot be guaranteed whereas the domestic mouse had a set amount of time to live from the beginning.
 
Snakes aren't omnivours...

I agree people can be vegan and healthy don't get me wrong at all, but snakes and people share next to nothing in common. My parents growing up were strict vegans and still eat little meat however a carnivour can not thrive on a meatless diet without heavy synthedic supplementation which is not nearly as healthy as getting vitamins, proteins, and minerals naturally:)
 
Shiari said:
Except not really because that domestic mouse was bred to be food for another animal and is going to die anyways, whereas the mouse that you have caught from the wild might have managed to survive longer, and raise more offspring which you have subsequently prevented it from doing. *Maybe* it would have been taken by a predator before hand, but that cannot be guaranteed whereas the domestic mouse had a set amount of time to live from the beginning.
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No, you're missing a couple of points here.

First -- I have to kill or at least rid myself of the wild mice, no matter what else happens. They naturally multiply because of the chicken feed, and if you let them continue to reproduce then you end up feeding mice instead of chickens! So the deaths of these wild mice are guaranteed. And, if you want to add in another consideration, I fed the darned things so they owe me! ;)

Second -- I can't be held responsible for all the domestic mice out there in the world -- only for the ones that I personally buy. If I feed the wild mice to the snakes, then I am not responsible for the deaths of the domestic mice.
 
amazondoc said:
No, you're missing a couple of points here.

First -- I have to kill or at least rid myself of the wild mice, no matter what else happens. They naturally multiply because of the chicken feed, and if you let them continue to reproduce then you end up feeding mice instead of chickens! So the deaths of these wild mice are guaranteed. And, if you want to add in another consideration, I fed the darned things so they owe me! ;)

Second -- I can't be held responsible for all the domestic mice out there in the world -- only for the ones that I personally buy. If I feed the wild mice to the snakes, then I am not responsible for the deaths of the domestic mice.
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Or, quite raising chickens thereby removing completely from the equation of what to do, the mice.
 
amazondoc said:
Yup! But then I'll still be responsible for killing the domestic mice.
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I am lost...you guarentee death to the wild mice because they eat your chickens food. You don't currently feed them off just kill them because their a pain(which I have no problem with btw). However, you have an ethical problem with killing domestic mice raised to be food? Domestic mice are raised and created and then killed for a reason, and your wild mice are killed for being obnoxious and wasted. Do you see my point here? It doesn't matter except at least domestic mice are fed specifically to be nutritious food for our herps and carry no disease which is healthier and safer for your snake. These wild mice just get the axe:)
 
amazondoc said:
Yup! But then I'll still be responsible for killing the domestic mice.
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But the sole purpose of those domestic mice is to be eaten.

You would be doing your duty to the mouse gods by using them as they were meant to be.

That's got to make you feel good about yourself.
 
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