Tessera Debate

Originally Posted by whoty

I said they may be hybrid. But,why would I be jealous,I'm not trying to make any "discovery".

Actually, you said "hybriddddddddddd"

Then added " You can't hate on how someone else feels about the "tessera corn snake" "

And then this..."Well,hate on my friend. I'm not ready to jump on the "Tessera bandwagon" just yet. I,myself think that they are hybrids. Corn snakes been around for a while. And out of the blue,a unique pattern as this snake appears. It's just always been fishy to me. Who's to say that a lot of other so called "morphs" isn't hybrids. Show me the blood paperwork,then i'll change my verdict. Until then......................hybrid."

Why does it have to be a hybrid until proven otherwise? Why can't it be a cornsnake until proven otherwise?

I haven't been around long, but based on the breeders who are presenting it, who have a pretty good reputation from what I've seen, I'm going to believe them, when they say it's not a hybrid.
It's not that hard to believe, with the way corn snake morphs have evolved.

They are stunning! Congrats, to all who were involved in this!

Originally Posted by abell82

Uh yeah, that's not correct. Many crosses have been done between corns and old world rats. The striped Leopard rat was not that uncommon, 7-10 years ago. (I believe that's what some were saying it was crossed with?)
Here is a link ...http://www.herpcenter.com/colubrids-...fo-needed.html

Thanks for the link I haven't heard of those before. Still I ask the question (to anyone) why do the normal F1 show no indications of anything else in the mix?

Originally Posted by RobbiesCornField

I said my piece in the other thread. I've had the chance to examine Tessera's up close and personal. In my opinion, definitely not hybrids. Again, I think anyone who cries "HYBRID" right off the bat is just jealous they didn't make the discovery. That's really what it seems to boil down to. Can you imagine what must have been thought when the first lavender's appeared on the market?



False. There's a member on here who has a corn x e. climacophora (Japanese rat).

Maybe if you want your opinion on hybrids taken seriously, you should do some research to see what's actually possible.

Yes I was wrong I am human and reserve the right to be wrong. After stalking the KS hybrid forums for a few years I have never seen mention of OW/NW crosses and was told by several people it was believed impossible due to chromosome differences.

Whotty, is there any "proof" that _would_ convince you that Tesserras are not hybrids? I was trying to think of what could be called proof. DNA- we don't have that yet. Well, seeing them hatch out from a clutch with parents of known pure origin. (Are any of them??) Scalation? Would having the exact scalation of a "pure" cornsnake ID them as pure? Documentation of five generations of verifiable pedigree? That should be easy enough- how many generations out are we now?

If there _isn't_ any proof, other than God coming down and writing it on a tablet- then can't we just enjoy them, or any other new gene mutation, for what they are?

I was looking at the thread about the Tesserra morphs. There's a lot of "discussion" going on there. This is probably exactly why some people don't post new morphs here, so much. BUT- I appreciate the fact that we are allowed to have this discussion. That it isn't banned, edited, disappeared, locked. If you are an honest, ethical breeder, like Don, KJ, Graham, then the discussion ought to roll off you like water off a duck, if you have presented the facts and history as you know it, truthfully. As Graham has. Unless you have a big fat head and are insulted by people asking for "proof," which is not unreasonable. Although it must get tiring, having to present your case over and over and over.

If you want to talk about genetic mutations popping up all over the place, look at ball pythons.

Most of the ball python morphs have popped up in just a few decades of breeding. The first albinos were seen and proven in the late 80's. People did not run around shrieking hybrid!! It was certainly a surprise to see the sudden influx of color and pattern changes that were opened up. Now new BP morphs hit the market yearly and are constantly changing.

So what if corn snake morphs have been worked with longer and some people think that there can not possibly be anything "drastically different" to be discovered. It could come down to the simple fact of this pattern being hidden in genes for a long time and it simply took breeding the right two animals together for it to surface. Genetics is not a true exact science, we can't guarantee that genes "XYZ" will behave a certain way when exposed to gene "B".

Who's to say a genetic pairing of the right two humans could result in offspring with purple hair? Just because something new pops up everyone starts calling "foul."

These snakes are being produced by some of the most reputable breeders around and they have explained the discovery hundreds of times.

How do we know that all of our corns are truly pure anyway? Do I buy hybrids? No. Do I accept the fact that somewhere along the line a rat snake or something was crossed in from time to time in some morphs? Probably. Breed what you like, but from people you trust and if you don't like hybrids, don't buy them. Simple.

Bottom line, if you don't like Tessera, don't buy it.

Originally Posted by whoty

I know,I know...broken record right? But............don't you really want to know? Someone,anyone please give your thoughts. Your thoughts exactly. Well,give your thought when you 1st heard about the tessera and give your thoughts now.

No, I don't care or really want to know, as long as the beasties are healthy. They're beautiful, and that's good enough for me :-).

First thoughts when I heard about them? "I WANT one!"

Same thoughts, now :-).

As a breeder who has been in this for a long while, I have seen alot of new morphs be found.Everything single new gene usually always people said hybrid.I personally dont think they are.
Its not that hard to believe that it exists (Tessera)
Think about Aztec/Zigzag corns no Motley gene there,but yet it isnt recessive.

Originally Posted by Shiari

What Whoty is failing to take into consideration is that Tessera is a single genetic mutation. If it was the result of hybridisation, it wouldn't be a dominant trait, and would not pass down steadily and in such an obviously dominant fashion.

this is not necessarily true, a dominant trait is a dominant trait. If a type of rat snake for example carried the tessara gene and was bred to a corn, the clutch would have the same prevalence of the gene 50/50. SO it would be easy to take the ones that carried the desired pattern but retained the cornsnake look and breed them back into cornsnakes to get the desired results.

Dominant traits are the easiest to pass between breeds with only one outcross.

Ah, but are not people claiming that this pattern is the result of a corn being bred to a snake with a similar pattern? It would be like breeding a corn to a garter and expecting to get tesseras. In fact, the tessera pattern is quite common in the snake world... just doesn't tend to be a dominant trait, perse. And even if a dominant from a hybrid... the early generation "normal" offspring should carry genetic traces of that hybrid ancestor...We could easily see pictures of those animals, and I'll bet you none of them look any different from a normal corn snake.