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How do you feel about God.

AliCat37 said:
I think that each person is right in their own way. There is never a single right answer to anything. If you believe that something is true, then it is, because you believe the other is false. Like, I believe that evolution is true, and creationism is not, whereas knox, you have the opposite view. You are correct that God created us because that is what you believe, and I am correct that we are all result of natural processes because that is what I believe. I'm not sure if that makes sense in the way I typed it, but it does to me. It's like, I don't believe in Hell, so I don't believe I can go there because it does not exist. You can't go somewhere that doesn't exist. Others do believe it exists, and since they do believe that it exists it automatically does. They could go there, because them believing it to exist causes it to exist. I think I'm delving more into philosophy now.
I don't believe that bopping rats should be an excepted method to cull them, but I have no issue bopping mice. I can't even answer that one myself, and I'm the one who has a problem with it! haha.
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I suppose that is what gives me the most peace. I DO believe in a single, moral code - the Bible.

If two people can be right about opposite ideas, then either one of them is wrong or they are both wrong.

It is either right to cheat on a test or it isn't. If it is both right AND wrong at the same time, then can we apply this to rape or genocide? Can that be right just because the person committing the act BELIEVES it is right, because it is fulfilling their own desires of happiness and contentment?

I struggle with that philosophy. With no constant standard, who determines anything? And if left up to the individual to determine it themselves, then was Hitler wrong? He FULLY believed what he was doing was good.
 
willderphil said:
As a christian would you believe someone like Robin Hood would be bad because he steals even though he gives the money away to the poor?
That might sound rhetorical but really its not. I'm genuinely interested.
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That is a VERY interesting question. It really is. And much deeper than you might think LOL. Because in the question, you have a corrupt government. People starving and being treated with injustice. In essence, do 2 wrongs make a right?

I will perfectly honest. I am not sure. I do know that Christ taught to render to Caesar what is Caesar's. That the kingdom of God is not of this world. He did not teach revolt against the tax collectors who blatantly took more than what was on their books to take to fill their own pockets. Christ simply taught to obey Him and He would take care of the rest.

Now, if Robin Hood is simply taking back what was once stolen, I don't believe that is a sin - that is defending the weak and righting a wrong. In that light, I defend him.

Situational Ethics are always fun and tough at the same time.... Whew!
 
knox said:
God is holy and will not tolerate sin, which is why He Himself died to pay for it. and He offers that redemption to anyone who will receive it. yes, to me that is the greatest kind of love - to die in my place, taking full punishment for that which I deserve and pay for that which I could never pay. and that is why I love my Lord.
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Can you explain what sins you committed? I'm pretty sure I did not ever hurt or harm someone intentionally and try to help people if they ask me, so I think I'm a good person. What would be my sin? My existence? Not being as holy as God himself? I don't understand...

Nanci said:
Maybe I'm a "bad" Christian, but just because that is what I choose for my faith doesn't mean someone who chooses Buhdism or something else is "wrong." We won't know, for sure, till we know. I'd like to believe that God, or whoever is in charge, has things under control, though we may not be able to see the master plan for ourselves. I believe, and would like to hope that I'm right, in an afterlife of some sort. If I'm wrong, and I just become worm food, I'm okay with that, too. I just do the best I can, try to live by the golden rule, try to help people and animals at every opportunity. Not to guarantee a place in heaven, but because it's right.
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You are a good Christian for that, the type I can respect.
 
knox said:
Many people believe in "a" God.

To me, the only God that makes sense is the God of the Bible. I know no other book that has stood the test of time in both prophecies written and fulfilled.

As far as evolution, if I believed in evolution, I would be calling my God, who breathed the book of Genesis to Moses to write, a liar. If my God tells me the universe was created in 6 days (yom is the Hebrew word for 24 hour solar day), I have to take Him at His word. He was very specific about including "Evening and Morning" as well.

As for the days being "periods of time", that doesn't jive, either. If a day in Genesis is eons long, then God created the trees and grasses on a day 3, and the sun, moon and stars on day 4. Photosynthesis doesn't work without the Sun. But vegetation is fine going one day without the sun. However, if day 3 were a gradual, million + year time span, how did the vegetation survive until day 4 when the celestial bodies were created?

This, to me, clearly shows a 6 day literal creation in the Bible.

I hope that clears things up a bit from the Creationism perspective.

Again, NOT trying to convince anyone - simply stating the other side for you to read.
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Some genesis passages in order

3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light

11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so

14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;

So there was light then plants and then the sun. Plants don't need the sun for photosynthesis only light and I have heard that the word that translates to day in English means a span of time so I still think people can believe in both.
Plus also I don't remember where but God says that a day to him is like a thousand years and a thousand years a day. Basically time doesn't pertain to God like it does humans.
 
right and wrong are not easily defined. its not that cut and dry. its a matter of perspective. and two people's perspectives will rarely coincide. thats just a fact of life.

i could ask you the same thing. what if your beliefs don't coincide with another christians beliefs? who is right and who is wrong. not all christians believe the same, and neither do atheists. i dont believe that we are born into sin, but some people do. does that make me right or the other person. its all a matter of what u believe to be true.

the ten commandments, i think, are a good basis for living a decent life, but not because its in the bible. its because its common sense. dont lie, cheat, steal, kill, things like that. its a good platform to build a set of standards to live by. and i try not to do those things. but im only human.
 
knox said:
I suppose that is what gives me the most peace. I DO believe in a single, moral code - the Bible.

If two people can be right about opposite ideas, then either one of them is wrong or they are both wrong.

It is either right to cheat on a test or it isn't. If it is both right AND wrong at the same time, then can we apply this to rape or genocide? Can that be right just because the person committing the act BELIEVES it is right, because it is fulfilling their own desires of happiness and contentment?

I struggle with that philosophy. With no constant standard, who determines anything? And if left up to the individual to determine it themselves, then was Hitler wrong? He FULLY believed what he was doing was good.
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I think my hurting someone else really fits here. Obviously rape and genocide are wrong cause they hurt someone else. Even the cheating is wrong because (if the SAT) your hurting someone else by taking someones place at college. You are hurting yourself by not getting an education. If you are cheating through high school you are possibly hurting your future employer by saying you have the same level of education as someone that graduated high school and won't be able to perform as well as someone who has actually graduated and your hurting someone else who worked hard through high school who won't get that job because you have it.
 
possum_minister said:
i dont believe in the existence of a god, but i could be wrong. the fact is no one knows. i suppose its possible, but i dont see it as very probable.
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And just BEING here, existing, in general is not very probable. Just sit for a while and ponder. Our distance from the sun, climate, bees, water, physics, THE sun, your heart beating, cellular structure, brain matter... how, even as smart as we are, we can't even come close to reproducing the human brain. Windows is as far as we've come.

To sit here and debate this makes me shake my head. We simply aren't intelligent enough to do so adequately. Which is why all of this is what we 'believe'.
Honestly I'd like to see people stop forcing what they believe to be right on others. I hate to say this, but Shiari, I see you doing this the most in these threads.

For all we know, we could be an alien experiment run amok; little Timmy's science project. Who REALLY knows?

I implore people to watch "Ancient Aliens" if you haven't already. Provides some new and quite unique and hard to challenge philosophies.
http://www.history.com/shows/ancient-aliens
 
knox said:
Many people believe in "a" God.

To me, the only God that makes sense is the God of the Bible. I know no other book that has stood the test of time in both prophecies written and fulfilled.
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Some of the reasons why I personally can't believe in the bible.

1. Even though he is all knowing and all powerful he still created an angel who he knew would defy him and bring evil into this world and lead to the eternal suffering of ?billions? of people in hell.

2. God indiscriminately killed all the first born Egyptians with the first plague when all he had to do was kill an evil ruler (Pharoh) who was enslaving the Jewish people and put into power someone who was more sympathetic to the Jewish people. Like maybe the unknowingly adopted brother of Pharoh

3. Making it a qualifier that a person must believe in God to make it to heaven and can't be just a good person. A lot of bad people believe in God and a lot of good decent people don't. (Of course there are good people who believe in God too and bad people who don't believe in him.)


On a side note. I really don't understand why Muslims fight so much with Jews and Christians. You guys might not agree on specifics but you believe in the same God.
 
Tara80 said:
And just BEING here, existing, in general is not very probable. Just sit for a while and ponder.

the earth is, as close as scientists have been able to determine, 4.6 billion years old. dust and gases and raw elements all coming together to make this world. the human body is made of the same things. Carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, etc. so no, to me it doesn't sound crazy that we exist here. when the earth cooled chemistry, and evolution took over. and 4.6 billion years is a long time for chemistry to be at work.

here's the definition of evolution

Evolution: a change in allele frequency over time.

thats it.

we're all herpers here so let me pose a question. If evolution is not real, then where did all the corn snake morphs come from. all a morph is is a change in alleles. a slight change of DNA. its evolution happening right in front of your eyes. genetic mutation.

no we cant recreate the human brain, but we have mapped out the human genome. you have to walk before you can run. science doesnt have all the answers but we're workin on it.
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First off, the bible was written by humans for humans. Sort of like "how to live a good life for dummies".
Obviously if God exists, he's more than we can fathom. I'm sure hell isn't 'fire and brimstone' either. There are other dimensions, planes of existence, realities... things we can't even start to comprehend. The bible is a book for sheep. I'm not saying this offensively just collectively - humans as a whole are sheep and something like the bible would have to be written as a 'how to' guide in general.

And as for Muslims - many Muslims I know would be unhappy to see you generalize them like that. Every crowd has its extremists.
 
knox said:
the whole issue with eternal punishment is that we are born as sinners, cursed by the very first sin in the garden of eden. none of us are good enough to get to heaven on our own. sin is in the way. that is why god died in the person of his son jesus, the perfect sacrifice and atonement for all sin. we all deserve hell for sinning against a holy and perfect god. but His love, grace, and mercy keeps those who love him from punishment and welcomes to them into eternal peace. this is the teaching from the bible. sin demands judgement and death. god's love keeps his people from facing that.

yes, this is harsh. but it is the reality which I hold to above all else.

I deserve hell, but my Lord lovingly and mercifully kept me from it because I believe in and follow him.
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How can eating one apple make us all sinners for ever and ever? I think this thread was not meant to discuss religion but I find it very hard to understand how people can see God as mercyful... first he wants you to go to hell for minor 'bad' behaviour but because he is such a good guy he will let you go into heaven if you are sorry. No offense but that sounds like an earthy abusive relationship to me.
 
knox said:
Here is a question that I hope an atheist can respectfully answer, because I am truly curious about it.

With no view of God, of eternal reward OR eternal punishment. If this life is all there is...

What keeps you from simply doing what you want to get whatever you want in this life? Why not cheat on your taxes? Why not steal from the grocery store? What motive is there to keep the law? What points your moral compass? What is your standard of what is decent and what is unacceptable?

With no fear of final judgement, why not simply kill someone if they offend you? Or give into any desire regardless of who it hurts? What do atheists use as a definition of good and bad - since they do not believe evil exists?

Is it merely trying to stay out of prison? With no God to tell you what is right and wrong, IS there a right and wrong? Or is it subjective to each individual - one person's "right" is fine for them, while another person's "right" is fine for them? What if these perceived "good things", or "right things" are in conflict with each other?

That's the major problem I have for not believing in my God, in the standard of His word to guide my life, telling what is holy and what is evil. Without that, I am left to my own, fallible reasoning.

I sincerely appreciate insight into another way of thinking that I am not familiar with.

Thank you...
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My parents taught me what is wrong and what is right and I know how I would want to be treated. Would I want to be robbed? No... Would I want to be cheated? No... Would I want to be hit on the head for insulting someone? No... So I don't do that to others either. Further, there is the law and police and stuff. Even if I think someone deserves a blow in the face, or deserves to be robbed because he or she is a very bad person, there is a chance I get caught and I don't want to. Last but not least there is a risk someone hurts you or damages your stuff or makes you look bad if you insult or cheat or hit someone. Don't want that either.

I'm quite surprised you need the Bible to know what is right and wrong and can't understand how non believers manage to do that. Didn't you parents teach you or did the just refer to the Bible? You must have a conscience too, it is a natural, human thing to know what is right or wrong too. If you hit someone and he or she starts crying for example, you know something is wrong, especially if the favor is returned. I am not being condescending, I'm just curious.
 
Knox, your posts on hell were really interesting. They did clarify it for me, thanks!

And about the atheists cheating on a college exam: Why don't Christians do the same thing? I'm sure plenty of Christians cheat on exams. And why do the Amish, who are Christian, run puppy mills that abuse dogs? You are a Christian, and so are the Amish, yet I'm pretty sure you don't condone puppy mills, I know that my Christian friends don't. People interpret the Bible differently, so even Christians have a lot of variation in belief. Who is right? It is basically the same question you had about atheists.

I believe that evil exists. Like, murderers and rapists are evil. My personal definition of bad: something that causes emotional or physical harm to another being. Good: something that improves the life of an animal/human. I try to be good because I don't like seeing other humans and animals hurt. It causes me pain to see others in it!

I think that if you learned to use your own reasoning, then it would not be fallible. Kind of like a child and how they have to learn how to act in society. With practice, reasoning is important. I use my own reasoning, and I think it suits me just fine. I am 4.0 GPA Honors student who got a Leadership award and helps rescue animals. I don't think I am a bad person because I believe in the Christian god.

As far as gods that has proven the test of time, Hinduism beats Christianity. It is the world's oldest religion alive today, and they have dozens of gods.

Here's some statistics to ponder: The world's happiest countries also have the highest rates of atheism/agnosticism. The happiest countries, in order, are Norway, Denmark, Finland, Australia, and New Zealand. (http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-37522775). Denmark is the country with the third highest rate of atheism, Norway is the fourth, Finland is the seventh, and the two others are in the 20s. (http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html)
 
knox said:
To what end? For what reason? With no God to answer to, what use is there in even determining "good" and "bad"?
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To be able to avoid acting bad oneself or to avoid people acting bad, both to prevent oneself from being hurt in anyway.
 
SnakeAround said:
I'm quite surprised you need the Bible to know what is right and wrong and can't understand how non believers manage to do that. Didn't you parents teach you or did the just refer to the Bible? You must have a conscience too, it is a natural, human thing to know what is right or wrong too. If you hit someone and he or she starts crying for example, you know something is wrong, especially if the favor is returned. I am not being condescending, I'm just curious.
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God did give us all a moral conscience. That is certain. Inherently, we DO know right from wrong. But we can numb our conscience as well - which is why some criminals feel no remorse for their wrong doings.

Someone asked me what sins I committed. Some that I repent of far too often are sins of bitterness, sins of lust, sins of coveting. Sin begins in the mind, and if not kept in check, manifests itself in action. Christ taught that hating someone is the same as murdering them. Thoughts, motives - God sees these and judges them as well.

And as far as eating the apple in the garden dooming all of us. It wasn't eating the fruit that was the sin. It was disobeying God that was the sin. Wanting something that He forbade. Desiring one's own will above the clear commands that God set forth. The eating of the fruit was just the manifestation of the disobedience in the heart.

It should have been an honor to obey the Lord. He gave them everything they needed. The earth was perfect. But Adam and Eve chose to love themselves more than God, and in that doomed all of mankind. They were the representatives of man, and thus their sin condemned us all.

But what a greater expression of love for God to make a way to "fix" all of that. To come to earth, live a perfect life to be the only sacrifice worthy of paying the penalty for all sin. To lay down His life in pain and suffering, dying with the full wrath of God on Himself, and giving His own righteousness to me in exchange. He bridged the gap to God that sin had created. I get to live with Him in eternal paradise. His grace is truly amazing. His love ever reaching. His mercies never ending. All He asks is that we believe and follow Him, denying our sinful nature. One day, I will be eternally rewarded for my faith.

I don't deserve, His love, but and grateful for it. He loved me when I was unlovable. He called me when I lived in rejection of Him. He saved me when I was on the path to Hell by my very nature of being man.

And that is why I love the Lord my God.
 
Tara80 said:
Evolution does not explain how something came from nothing. How we exist.
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Maybe that is part of the reason many people still believe in the Bible. They need answers to their questions. Personally I don't ask these questions because I don't feel the need to know the answer, I do fine without having an explanation for everything.
 
Oh, and the Bible goes far beyond showing me what is right and wrong.

It changes me. It molds me to the image of God. It transforms my thoughts and actions. When I am in times of trouble, it reinforces the fact that God is in control. It keeps my mind on Him, on His will for my life. It takes my mind off of my own selfish desires. The Bible teaches me that God's will is always the best, even when it doesn't appear so when my life is tough. Through the Bible I get to actually SEE the mind of the Creator of the universe. I get to know Him. It is a privilege to read what His best is for me.

It is not just a map for what is right and wrong. It is a guidebook to the secrets of the universe, how to live a fruitful life, and how to secure an eternity with the only true God.

This is the Christian faith. This is what people reject, but what I hold most dear.
 
knox said:
God did give us all a moral conscience. That is certain. Inherently, we DO know right from wrong. But we can numb our conscience as well - which is why some criminals feel no remorse for their wrong doings.

And as far as eating the apple in the garden dooming all of us. It wasn't eating the fruit that was the sin. It was disobeying God that was the sin. Wanting something that He forbade. Desiring one's own will above the clear commands that God set forth. The eating of the fruit was just the manifestation of the disobedience in the heart.

I don't deserve, His love, but and grateful for it. He loved me when I was unlovable. He called me when I lived in rejection of Him. He saved me when I was on the path to Hell by my very nature of being man.

And that is why I love the Lord my God.
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Sorry, but your God did not give my moral conscience in my opinion, my parents and my genes did. So what you said is not certain. And indeed, some criminals ignore their conscience or just miss it because a certain part of the brain does not function, that is proven by science.

I have a hard time understanding why you think it is logical that you inherited the sin of the first two people on earth. Do you also believe that in the earthy form, like when someone's dad commits a crime, the son inherites it? I think it is not reasonable to blame mankind for what Adam and Eve did, even if you think their story happened as is told in the Bible.

Thanks for duscussing this the way you do by the way :)
 
knox said:
Oh, and the Bible goes far beyond showing me what is right and wrong.

It changes me. It molds me to the image of God. It transforms my thoughts and actions. When I am in times of trouble, it reinforces the fact that God is in control. It keeps my mind on Him, on His will for my life. It takes my mind off of my own selfish desires. The Bible teaches me that God's will is always the best, even when it doesn't appear so when my life is tough. Through the Bible I get to actually SEE the mind of the Creator of the universe. I get to know Him. It is a privilege to read what His best is for me.

It is not just a map for what is right and wrong. It is a guidebook to the secrets of the universe, how to live a fruitful life, and how to secure an eternity with the only true God.

This is the Christian faith. This is what people reject, but what I hold most dear.
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Man I want you to reply to my previous replies. I'm really getting into this discussion.
 
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