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king snake influence in tessera morph?

yojoe05 said:
Do you think tessera is a hybrid trait or is it truely a corn specific gene?
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I think said seller is just causing chaos in the cornsnake world for his own nefarious purposes.

Until Don says otherwise, I'll consider my Gartersnake as pure as the cornsnake I picked up in my yard in 2005.
 

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Nanci, what nefarious purpose could he have that would instigate a claim that reduces the value of his BEST SELLING morph (per Joe's comment to me months ago)? Why does his theory have to be malicious in its origin? Why can't this just be something Joe believes strongly in enough to share with his peers; AND to also take all of the negative and angry criticism from his peers as a direct result of his beliefs.

Why can't we share unpopular thoughts and hypotheses with others in the corn trade without being labeled nefarious or have our characters assaulted?

All Joe did was share his thoughts. He blamed no one, nor did he accuse anyone of wrongdoing.

Once again, just my thoughts. I'd just like to see people in our community be able to express their thoughts without others persecuting them for doing so.

Mitch
 
I guess I just judge people by their past history. That doesn't mean everyone has to agree with me.
 
Nanci said:
I think said seller is just causing chaos in the cornsnake world for his own nefarious purposes.

Until Don says otherwise, I'll consider my Gartersnake as pure as the cornsnake I picked up in my yard in 2005.
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Nancy, ....and I will also state that your Tessera's entire head shape, head pattern, face, labials and body color is again, as SOLID P.guttatus as there ever could be.........and nothing CLOSE to displaying any L.g.californiae. This hybrid thing with the Tesseras is just plain ridiculous.

Ohhhhh!!, I guess these Tessera "hybrids" only maintain the striping of the San Diego striper, or Newport-Long Beach coastal aberrant Cal. king, but NONE of the other countless Cal. king characteristics.....:laugh: :duck:
 
"Cheap" and "tessera" are two words that are quickly becoming synonymous with each other. However, it's not theories like Joe's that are the cause, but instead it's the simple economics associated with a dominant gene. The tessera market has begun to crash, and it'll continue to plummet until prices reflect the ease of pairing one tessera male to dozens of females and having a hundred tessera hatchlings available in a single season.
 
Doug, I greatly respect you, but in three to four generations of artificial selection, the majority of Kingsnake morphological characters (I.e., snout, labials, etc.) can be removed from a line. That's the power of artificial selection; rapid morphological change in just a few generations. Even in the early 1800's breeders working with hybridizing pigeons remarked how they could make traits of one of the originating species disappear in a line, all the while reveling in how the single trait they were selecting for in that parental species was all that remained.
 
Someone please show me these corn x Cal. king hybrids that will consistently look like all the countless Tesseras in the hobby after being bred back to more unrelated normal cornsnakes?????

There is no way in HELL that 50% would be absolutely textbook normal phenotypes and 50% whacky Tessera phenotypes if they were Cal. king x corn hybrids. Has anyone given any thought to how asinine this theory is, or is it just me???
whistling2.gif
 
Susan said:
When tessera is posted as a hybrid gene by Ian's Vivarium and South Mountain Reptiles, then we will know for a fact that they are hybrids. :duck: :sidestep:
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Nanci said:
Until Don says otherwise
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I've been following this thread all day long and agree with Mitch as far as, I don't see any wrong doing on Joe's part for simply stating his personal opinion and also in that, any and all transactions I've had with Joe have been 100% saticfactory. People make mistakes and Joe has made good on his mistakes, but his past mistakes does not take away the fact that Joe is a very knowledgeable person when it comes to genetics. Am I saying that Joe is correct in his thoughts on Tessera Corn?, no I'm not.

Personally, I'm on the fence about the genetics of Tessera Corns (1) I like them and (2) it does not seem that this can be proven one way or the other. I could care less if they are or are not hybrids and I feel the same way about the Ultra trait.

However, I am curious as to when and who made these two, or anyone else for that matter the ruler(s) of ALL :shrugs:

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
I respect you a great deal too Mitch. But how on earth could 50% textbook corns be produced and 50%Tesseras be made and NEVER any intermediates in all these countless breedings everyone has done over the past several years?


~Doug
 
Mitchell Mulks said:
"Cheap" and "tessera" are two words that are quickly becoming synonymous with each other. However, it's not theories like Joe's that are the cause, but instead it's the simple economics associated with a dominant gene. The tessera market has begun to crash, and it'll continue to plummet until prices reflect the ease of pairing one tessera male to dozens of females and having a hundred tessera hatchlings available in a single season.
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We certainly knew the day was coming. Still, Tessera remains a beautiful PATTERN gene.
 
Walter I think Susan was being facetious ;)

I just don't see it myself, but I'm only qualified to give an opinion. I wouldn't be shocked or surprised if they were, but that goes across the board as far as "pet market" corns go. Irregardless of how Joe feels it's a bush move to tank on them so fast. Maybe he feels he owes it to the community? :shrugs:
 
DMong said:
I respect you a great deal too Mitch. But how on earth could 50% textbook corns be produced and 50%Tesseras be made and NEVER any intermediates in all these countless breedings everyone has done over the past several years?


~Doug
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Perhaps you are considering the tesseras with the broken up pattern/incomplete stripe down the back as 100% tessera? They look intermediate to me. I think Joe's price is right considering the quality.
Personally I would have sent them to Korea with the rest of the scrap from asst'd projects. Keep the price stronger in this country. I know, too much work. Let's crash the market on ourselves and then point the finger elsewhere.

Remember back when the first tess were available?
no hets listed. hefty price.
BHB tess, no hets listed, hundred bucks.
All these other breeders listing tess with hets, a little more money. not much more money. Are we crashing the market on ourselves by getting ten bucks more for each p/het listed?
 
chris68 said:
Walter I think Susan was being facetious ;)

I just don't see it myself, but I'm only qualified to give an opinion.[/quote]

Maybe so ???
Actually, I believe that's what we are ALL only qualified to do, unless someone can bring to the table hard evidence and facts ;)

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
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airenlow said:
But Joe observed them for 2 whole years, Doug!!!
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Oh yeah!!, now if Joe only spent more time "observing" San Diego striped or aberrant Newport coastal Cal. king x Corn hybrids (dread the thought) and then constantly introduce more normal corns back into them, he would know right off the bat that the Tessera morph really couldn't be a Cal. king x corn hybrid.... ;) Because if the Cal. king striped/aberrant gene is so incredibly overbearing and dominating like he is portraying it to be, then all these NORMAL phenotype corns wouldn't be constantly produced either in the very same 50-50 clutches when a Tessera is bred to a normal corn. And if this Cal. king pattern is NOT dominating and overbearing, then WHERE are the Cal. king intermediates, or even Cal. king phenotypes??..LOL!


~Doug
 
chris68 said:
I just don't see it myself, but I'm only qualified to give an opinion. I wouldn't be shocked or surprised if they were, but that goes across the board as far as "pet market" corns go. QUOTE]

This is my opinion exactly at this point. I've only been around long enough to see a few morphs put into question as far as their purity,but I am guessing that historically most corn morphs have been questioned at one time or another. & unless there has been someone to step up & Prove otherwise,it all comes down to personal opinions.

I love my Tessera,my Gold Dusts & my Tequila Sunrise line girl, all of which have questionable genetics. :)
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Just breed them to strawberry and give it a new morph name in the F1 and all your issues will be solved. Just like slapping a new morph name on F1 this X that ball pythons, or the geckos. Corns have been the longest running this X that herptile in the realm. So naturally they get the most flack. Golly gee whitikers, can't we just all get along?
 
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