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good find or no?

W

wakeboarder

wakeboarder
I found a 4 year old perfectly stripe snow male at a local pet store for $79. He has a small kink from being"smashed in the lid." do I beieve the guy or not take the chance? I don't want kinked babies next year. And is that a good price?
 
$80 for a Striped Snow is a pretty good price for a healthy snake, IMO. I wouldn;t be overly concerned with the kink. It is very possible it could be from getting pinched. Even if it isn't, there are MILLIONS of reasons for babies being kinked, and not all of them are genetic. I'd grab it if it were me...but that's just me...
 
Thanks for the advise! With that being said what would snow stripe and amel stripe produce? Sorry, I'm still working on the genetics part:)
 
I would get the snake if I liked it, but I wouldn't breed animals with imperfections unless I knew for sure they were caused by life and not genetics. Just my $.02, but cornsnakes aren't exactly rare. It makes no sense to me to not breed THE BEST snakes we have... that way we're improving the species and not merely flooding the market with less than ideal offspring just 'cuz we can. :shrugs:
 
An amel and a snow bred together would produce Amel Stripes het Anery. That is unless they have hidden genes.
 
Hypancistrus said:
I would get the snake if I liked it, but I wouldn't breed animals with imperfections unless I knew for sure they were caused by life and not genetics. Just my $.02, but cornsnakes aren't exactly rare. It makes no sense to me to not breed THE BEST snakes we have... that way we're improving the species and not merely flooding the market with less than ideal offspring just 'cuz we can. :shrugs:
Click to expand...

AMEN! It's time to treat snakes like good dog breeders treat their dogs. A show or breeder quaility and pet quaility. Great price for a fun pet sure...but not a breeder.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypancistrus
I would get the snake if I liked it, but I wouldn't breed animals with imperfections unless I knew for sure they were caused by life and not genetics. Just my $.02, but cornsnakes aren't exactly rare. It makes no sense to me to not breed THE BEST snakes we have... that way we're improving the species and not merely flooding the market with less than ideal offspring just 'cuz we can.



whippet said:
AMEN! It's time to treat snakes like good dog breeders treat their dogs. A show or breeder quaility and pet quaility. Great price for a fun pet sure...but not a breeder.
Click to expand...

So, who gets the right to determine if my animals are more worthy than yours to breed and therefore better the species? I do not recommend breeding imperfect animals either but IF the animal is truly injured because of an accident and not due to genetics then why not let them enjoy the hobby also. I certainly did not put the best two available corn snakes together for my first breeding but I did get a great feeling seeing thos first eggs hatch.

Just my thoughts

dc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypancistrus
I would get the snake if I liked it, but I wouldn't breed animals with imperfections unless I knew for sure they were caused by life and not genetics. Just my $.02, but cornsnakes aren't exactly rare. It makes no sense to me to not breed THE BEST snakes we have... that way we're improving the species and not merely flooding the market with less than ideal offspring just 'cuz we can.



whippet said:
AMEN! It's time to treat snakes like good dog breeders treat their dogs. A show or breeder quaility and pet quaility. Great price for a fun pet sure...but not a breeder.
Click to expand...

So, who gets the right to determine if my animals are more worthy than yours to breed and therefore better the species? I do not recommend breeding imperfect animals either but IF the animal is truly injured because of an accident and not due to genetics then why not let them enjoy the hobby also. I certainly did not put the best two available corn snakes together for my first breeding but I did get a great feeling seeing thos first eggs hatch.

Just my thoughts

dc
 
whippet said:
AMEN! It's time to treat snakes like good dog breeders treat their dogs. A show or breeder quaility and pet quaility. Great price for a fun pet sure...but not a breeder.
Click to expand...

YEA!! Let's treat our snakes like the top AKC dog breeders do and breed diseases INTO our lines! Let's CAUSE issues where none existed before just so we can conform to someone else's idea of "perfection! WOOHOO! Let's inbreed our animals so extensively that we create bone diseases, neurological disorders, and displacia syndromes that run rampant through our "perfect" animals! :rolleyes:

Uhh...yea...sorry...but I disagree with that...:poke:
 
Camby said:
So, who gets the right to determine if my animals are more worthy than yours to breed and therefore better the species? I do not recommend breeding imperfect animals either but IF the animal is truly injured because of an accident and not due to genetics then why not let them enjoy the hobby also.
Click to expand...

Again, it's just my opinion on the matter. Worth, at most, $.02. Dude asked what folks thought about his situation, and I gave my opinion on it.

The sticking point for me is whether you can trust the dealer. I'm inclined to believe that most dealers will tell you whatever you want to hear to get a large adult snake moved out of there. "Oh, that kink? It's nothing-- came from a lid." Move the big eater out... put several smaller eaters in its place. I'm not discouraging anyone from giving breeding a try-- just offering an alternate line of thought on reasons to breed and the role breeding can play in the herp hobby.

We each have to determine the worth or value of our own snakes. I personally have a California kingsnake that is gorgeous as anything, but has a nasty temper at 18 months of age. I am leaning towards never breeding her because, to me, that's not a trait I want to encourage. To someone else, the fact that she is a viable healthy female may be reason enough to breed her. Both are equally valid decisions, and would be up to the individual owner. But if someone specifically asks for my opinion on a subject, I will provide it, even if it doesn't generally match popular opinion.
 
tyflier said:
YEA!! Let's treat our snakes like the top AKC dog breeders do and breed diseases INTO our lines! Let's CAUSE issues where none existed before just so we can conform to someone else's idea of "perfection! WOOHOO! Let's inbreed our animals so extensively that we create bone diseases, neurological disorders, and displacia syndromes that run rampant through our "perfect" animals! :rolleyes:

Uhh...yea...sorry...but I disagree with that...:poke:
Click to expand...

Okay hold a moment. Top breeders do not do that. Backyard and unethical breeders do.
Yes some dogs have huge linebred problems. German Sheps for example have been bred in america to the point of near helplessness. HOWEVER Good, true breeders who breed for the love of the dog and not hte money do NOT breed animals who are less than worthy. DO NOT breed diseases into the line and do NOT inbreed. German Sheps for example are going back to actual german dogs.
Breeding a pet store puppy to it's sibling is bad. Why would breeding a pet store snake with unknown gentics be any better? A snow corn is nothing rare. Why not only breed the best of them. It's not like there is a limited gene pool of them.
And if anything we do breed our reptiles with huge problems. For one...how many sellers sell a 1.1 pair that came from the SAME clutch!?! Lots!
Spider balls are a great example of snake breeding gone wrong. They are beautiful but 9 out of 10 have nuriological problems...and yet not only do breeders still produce them, they intrebreed into other morphs to make prettier and prettier snakes. Pieds are another example. THe great underground secret is they are horrible feeders...worse than normal BPs, and yet we continue to breed because they are pretty!
So corns so far seem as if they have not been affected as much as balls, but this is proof that sometimes breeding anything that breaths is NOT the way to think.
Nothing negative about anyone here...just my two cents. And yes I have purebred dogs and always will...but I choose ethical breeders.

***************
as for determining the best snakes...You would have to do that yourself. But obviously a kinked snake is NOT it.

*************
So basically. Good deal for a "pet". Bad deal for a "breeder".
 
Hypancistrus said:
Dude asked what folks thought about his situation, and I gave my opinion on it.

But if someone specifically asks for my opinion on a subject, I will provide it, even if it doesn't generally match popular opinion.
Click to expand...

He never asked any of us about breeding the snake and our thoughts on that. He asked if it was a good deal (price wise) and then followed that up with what would he get by crossing an amel stripe to a striped snow. Others decided to advice him he shouldn't breed it.

Not intending to argue but that is what he asked

dc
 
camby said:
He never asked any of us about breeding the snake and our thoughts on that. He asked if it was a good deal (price wise) and then followed that up with what would he get by crossing an amel stripe to a striped snow. Others decided to advice him he shouldn't breed it.

Not intending to argue but that is what he asked

dc
Click to expand...

wakeboarder said:
I found a 4 year old perfectly stripe snow male at a local pet store for $79. He has a small kink from being"smashed in the lid." do I beieve the guy or not take the chance? I don't want kinked babies next year. And is that a good price?
Click to expand...

Perhaps I misinterpreted. If so, my apologies to the OP.
 
tyflier said:
YEA!! Let's treat our snakes like the top AKC dog breeders do and breed diseases INTO our lines! Let's CAUSE issues where none existed before just so we can conform to someone else's idea of "perfection! WOOHOO! Let's inbreed our animals so extensively that we create bone diseases, neurological disorders, and displacia syndromes that run rampant through our "perfect" animals!
Click to expand...
One word . . . stargazers . . . :sidestep:

;)
D80

PS. I do agree with the "intent" of Hypancistrus and Whippet's words.
 
Hypancistrus said:
Again, it's just my opinion on the matter. Worth, at most, $.02. Dude asked what folks thought about his situation, and I gave my opinion on it.

We each have to determine the worth or value of our own snakes. I personally have a California kingsnake that is gorgeous as anything, but has a nasty temper at 18 months of age. I am leaning towards never breeding her because, to me, that's not a trait I want to encourage. To someone else, the fact that she is a viable healthy female may be reason enough to breed her. Both are equally valid decisions, and would be up to the individual owner. But if someone specifically asks for my opinion on a subject, I will provide it, even if it doesn't generally match popular opinion.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you... I have a handsome hypomel snake from old Love bloodlines het for nothing more than anery (his father & uncle was the gorgeous ghost in her first book). The kind of babies I would get from him are a dime a dozen and most people prefer the more exotic morphs now days. It ain't hurting Kieran one bit to remain simply a pet, who I enjoy very much.
 
whippet said:
German Sheps for example have been bred in america to the point of near helplessness. HOWEVER Good, true breeders who breed for the love of the dog and not hte money do NOT breed animals who are less than worthy. DO NOT breed diseases into the line and do NOT inbreed. German Sheps for example are going back to actual german dogs.
Click to expand...

I do somewhat agree with you regarding GSD's. We have a female that is an F2 from a German parents but her grandmother was imported prior to ahving the puppies. He dad is also an import so her lineage is pretty secure. Not to mention that her dad is a 2 time World Sieger Champion.


whippet said:
Why would breeding a pet store snake with unknown gentics be any better? A snow corn is nothing rare. Why not only breed the best of them. It's not like there is a limited gene pool of them..
Click to expand...

Again, who determines which ones make the grade. IF his snake is kinked due to injury then why not consider it genetically sound. I aquired a female snow bull from John Cherry and his helper had accidentally slamed a lid on a male by accident. The male was kinked severely and he gave the male to me as a freebie. The snake ate, pooped and everything fine. Should he have been cast aside?

In regards to unknow genetics, I would almost bet many of the wholesale corns purchased by individuals end up with better genetics than some purchased from other breeders. I sold a wholesale lot of impecable butter motlies het stripe. A few were sold at a local show. My snakes are from SMR lines and are excellent genetics but since people are unwilling to pay the $300 the snakes are worth (due to other genetics), I sold them as butter motlies. So, the people that buy those get great genetically diverse snakes. That example alone lends me to disagree with your statements.


Those are my last thoughts, just wanted to get them out there for discussion

dc
 
Camby said:
Again, who determines which ones make the grade. IF his snake is kinked due to injury then why not consider it genetically sound. I aquired a female snow bull from John Cherry and his helper had accidentally slamed a lid on a male by accident. The male was kinked severely and he gave the male to me as a freebie. The snake ate, pooped and everything fine. Should he have been cast aside?
Click to expand...

Well in this case...I would not trust a "pet store salesperson" to really know if that was a gentic kink or a accident. They just want to make a sale. I would trust a big breeder with a good rep.
 
whippet said:
I would trust a big breeder with a good rep.
Click to expand...

OK, different subject now and BTW, sorry to the OP for hijacking this thread. I agree completely with your statements BUT, most people do not want to pay what morphs are truly worth. So this year I sold to a wholesaler or put them in the freezer. I will not let people take advantage of this terrible market and buy a $300 or more snake for $35.00 just to make a sale. I am not soley dependant on my animals sales. Next year I will not breed very many animals, only the projects I am working on, not other stuff that would be middle of the road or lower.

dc
 
whippet said:
Okay hold a moment. Top breeders do not do that. Backyard and unethical breeders do.
Yes some dogs have huge linebred problems. German Sheps for example have been bred in america to the point of near helplessness. HOWEVER Good, true breeders who breed for the love of the dog and not hte money do NOT breed animals who are less than worthy. DO NOT breed diseases into the line and do NOT inbreed. German Sheps for example are going back to actual german dogs.
Breeding a pet store puppy to it's sibling is bad. Why would breeding a pet store snake with unknown gentics be any better? A snow corn is nothing rare. Why not only breed the best of them. It's not like there is a limited gene pool of them.
And if anything we do breed our reptiles with huge problems. For one...how many sellers sell a 1.1 pair that came from the SAME clutch!?! Lots!
Spider balls are a great example of snake breeding gone wrong. They are beautiful but 9 out of 10 have nuriological problems...and yet not only do breeders still produce them, they intrebreed into other morphs to make prettier and prettier snakes. Pieds are another example. THe great underground secret is they are horrible feeders...worse than normal BPs, and yet we continue to breed because they are pretty!
So corns so far seem as if they have not been affected as much as balls, but this is proof that sometimes breeding anything that breaths is NOT the way to think.
Nothing negative about anyone here...just my two cents. And yes I have purebred dogs and always will...but I choose ethical breeders.

***************
as for determining the best snakes...You would have to do that yourself. But obviously a kinked snake is NOT it.

*************
So basically. Good deal for a "pet". Bad deal for a "breeder".
Click to expand...


Ahhh good points made here! :cheers:
 
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