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Health Issues/Feeding Problems Anything related to general or specific health problems. Issues having to do with feeding problems or tips.

6 month old snake died suddenly. Need advice.
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Old 03-06-2019, 06:31 PM   #1
Jotarou
6 month old snake died suddenly. Need advice.

I am a first time reptile keeper and I researched a great deal before buying my first corn snake. She was a normal red and pink coloration with red eyes (I don't know the scientific names for colors, sorry). I got her as a hatch-ling and had her for about six months before she died last week. I've been looking at forums trying to determine what I did wrong. I will try to give details without giving too much.

Habitat: 10 gallon aquarium with aspen bedding. Coconuts halves on warm and cool sides, plus a fake hollow log in the middle for hiding. Water dish on cool side. Plastic suction cup plants on sides and back. Climbing branches gathered from outside and baked at 250 for 90 minutes before adding to tank. They came from a dogwood tree which I had researched as being safe for reptile enclosures.

The cool side of the tank was around 72 degrees (slightly cooler at night) and the warm side was 85 inside the hide. I measured on top of the substrate with an infrared thermometer. Heating was a UTH regulated by a temperature switch set at 92 degrees.

I had the tank lit with a 13 watt UVB light which was on a timer from 8:00 to 8:00

Problems: About a month in I noticed that she was out roaming around all the time and wasn't eating. Examining her closely I found tiny black mites. I treated everything in the tank and the snake with 'Natural Chemistry' Reptile Spray. I used disposable hides and paper towels to monitor for mites. She started eating again and after two more treatments I saw no mites on the paper towels or hides. Concluding that the problem was solved, I returned the habitat to its original condition. I never saw any more evidence of mites, but I began using Provent-a-mite as a precaution. I always allowed for the tank to air out before returning her to it, and did not spray the water dish. Shortly after this she shed for the second and final time. Both her sheds were one flawless piece, including eye caps.

Behavior: Most of her behavior was textbook as I understand it. After feeding she would retreat to her warm hide and remain there for two days or more. Afterward she would often come out and explore the tank. She frequently stayed out of the hides and would often be up in the branches or on the log. Occasionally she would refuse a meal, but mostly was a good eater. She never regurgitated.

The first time I weighed her was about three months in. She weighed 12 grams. The second time was about a month later and she still weighed 12 grams. I had been feeding her every six days, but concerned that she wasn't growing I started feeding her every five. The final time I weighed her was about a month before she died and she still weighed 12 grams. She had not shed in about three months. I started feeding her one pinkie every 4 days. She took them eagerly for two weeks.

My Behavior: I was spot cleaning her tank whenever she pooped, and changing the entire bedding about once a month. I added fresh water every few days and washed out the dish once a week, or any time she pooped in it. I was handling her for about 10 minutes twice a week, but never until 48 hours after she ate.

The Final 2 Weeks: When I went to feed her she sniffed at it but wouldn't take it. I didn't think much of it and waited 4 days before trying again. This one she wouldn't even sniff at. I waited two more days and tried a final time. Again she showed no interest at all. The next morning I went in to check on her and found she was dead, face down in her water dish.

I have been scouring the forums, trying to find out where I went wrong. If anyone has advice I would like to hear it. A few questions:

1. Should I have taken her to a vet? If so, when?

2. Should I get rid of the UVB light? Can I replace it with something else just to make the tank look brighter? If so what?

3. Did I overfeed her in the final month? I had seen several feeding charts, some of which said one pinkie every 5 days, others said every 4-5.

4. Is it possible that I did nothing wrong but she died anyway? I hope to get another snake in the future, but not if I can't determine what happened.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I know it was long. Any advice is appreciated. Questions welcome.
 
Old 03-06-2019, 07:39 PM   #2
Karl_Mcknight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jotarou View Post
...............
I have been scouring the forums, trying to find out where I went wrong. If anyone has advice I would like to hear it. A few questions:

1. Should I have taken her to a vet? If so, when?

2. Should I get rid of the UVB light? Can I replace it with something else just to make the tank look brighter? If so what?

3. Did I overfeed her in the final month? I had seen several feeding charts, some of which said one pinkie every 5 days, others said every 4-5.

4. Is it possible that I did nothing wrong but she died anyway? I hope to get another snake in the future, but not if I can't determine what happened.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I know it was long. Any advice is appreciated. Questions welcome.
1. When you notice a problem with any animal a vet visit is a good choice. Even if it's not necessary, it still would have been a good idea.

2. Some people use light, some don't. Light sources add heat. So the question is, how much heat was coming from the light and how close to the cage was the light? Too much heat dries the air also. I personally use no lights in the cage, I do however have a normal room light on a timer that provides about 12 hours on/off daily from across the room. It adds no heat to the cage.

3. Did you over feed? A baby corn snake of 12 grams can eat a Pinky mouse of about 1 gram to 1.5 grams every 5 days. So you'll have to answer that question yourself.

4. Yes it's possible you did nothing wrong and the snake could have died anyway. Anytime you start out with a snake that small, there is always a chance for problems. I always suggest to folks to purchase snakes from reputable sellers, breeders, and to buy snakes that are at least 3 months old, have shed several times and have documentation of their feeding schedule.

I'm going to bet your snake came from a store somewhere, and you had no idea how old it was, you saw no records of feeding and so forth. For the record, you had the snake for 6 months, it should have weighed more than 12 grams, especially if it was 12 grams when you bought it.

Treating for mites and using chemicals around animals can be suspect too. Sometimes it's necessary, but wouldn't it be better to have an animal you don't have to do that with?

You stated that the temp measured 85 on top of the substrate but was 92 underneath. Most of us set the temp underneath. The top of the substrate does not matter and the snake can burrow. In your case a 92 degree heat pad along with UVB light, I'm going to bet the cage was too hot.

Corn snakes are not tropical animals Like pythons and don't require high heat.

If you wish to try your hand with another corn snake, I would suggest you not buy from the person you bought the last one from. Try somebody else. Lower your heat and get rid of the light. Buy a snake that is 3 to 6 months old rather than a hatchling.

Good luck.
 
Old 03-06-2019, 10:24 PM   #3
Jotarou
Thank you for the advice, some clarification if I may:

1. So I should have taken her to the vet when I saw she had mites, rather than try to get rid of them myself, is that what you mean? Do people typically take a new snake to the vet for an initial check?

2. The heat from the UV light was minimal since it was a florescent bulb. I would prefer to have a light on the tank if I can, it looks much nicer when lit, but my primary concern is of course the health of my pet. Is there a common consensus as to what sort of lighting would be best for corns?

I'm going to bet your snake came from a store somewhere, and you had no idea how old it was, you saw no records of feeding and so forth. For the record, you had the snake for 6 months, it should have weighed more than 12 grams, especially if it was 12 grams when you bought it.

You are correct on both of the first two assumptions. I did see the feeding schedule, but it had only fed twice between it arriving at the store and me taking it home. I have not been able to find information on what a typical, healthy weight is for a corn at 3 months, 6 months, etc. Is there a good reference for that or is it too varied from snake to snake?

Treating for mites and using chemicals around animals can be suspect too. Sometimes it's necessary, but wouldn't it be better to have an animal you don't have to do that with?

I guess I don't understand what you mean. Of course it would have been better if my snake never had mites, but since she did I used a commonly recommended product to treat the condition. Should I have let a vet handle this instead?

You stated that the temp measured 85 on top of the substrate but was 92 underneath. Most of us set the temp underneath. The top of the substrate does not matter and the snake can burrow. In your case a 92 degree heat pad along with UVB light, I'm going to bet the cage was too hot.

She did often burrow into the substrate beneath her hide. I assumed she was doing this because she wanted to be warmer and that her instincts would stop her if it was TOO warm. Is that not the case? Do I need to ensure that there is no place in the tank that is above 85 degrees, even if the temperature on top is only 78?

Buy a snake that is 3 to 6 months old rather than a hatchling.

I was under the impression that common practice among breeders was to sell snakes once they were fed a few times as opposed to months down the line. None of the online sellers I've checked list how old the animals are but most say 10-12 inches which sound like just hatchlings to me. can you recommend one that sells more established animals?

Thank you again for your help, as I stated I am new to reptile keeping so all my knowledge is purely from research and my all-too-brief experience so far.
 
Old 03-07-2019, 06:16 AM   #4
Karl_Mcknight
1. So I should have taken her to the vet when I saw she had mites, rather than try to get rid of them myself, is that what you mean? Do people typically take a new snake to the vet for an initial check? ........ Treating for mites and using chemicals around animals can be suspect too. Sometimes it's necessary, but wouldn't it be better to have an animal you don't have to do that with? .......... I guess I don't understand what you mean. Of course it would have been better if my snake never had mites, but since she did I used a commonly recommended product to treat the condition. Should I have let a vet handle this instead?

** An Initial vet visit is not a bad idea. A lot of folks do that. Any chemicals used for treatments and cleaning can be detrimental to a reptile's health. I "Assume" you did everything right, and followed all the directions and precautions, but did you? How would I or anybody else around here know? We just have to take your word for it.
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You are correct on both of the first two assumptions. I did see the feeding schedule, but it had only fed twice between it arriving at the store and me taking it home. I have not been able to find information on what a typical, healthy weight is for a corn at 3 months, 6 months, etc. Is there a good reference for that or is it too varied from snake to snake?

** Each snake is different. But since your snake weighed 12 grams when you got it (A newly hatched baby weighs 5 to 9 grams) suggests it was very young, and since 6 months later it still weighed 12 grams indicates it gained no weight the entire time you had it. Corn snakes grow faster as babies and slow down as they age. Using my snake as a reference, it was 6 months old when I acquired it and it weighed 80 grams. I assume it was the typical 5 to 9 grams at birth, so obviously it gained about 70 to 75 grams in 6 months time.
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You stated that the temp measured 85 on top of the substrate but was 92 underneath. Most of us set the temp underneath. The top of the substrate does not matter and the snake can burrow. In your case a 92 degree heat pad along with UVB light, I'm going to bet the cage was too hot...........She did often burrow into the substrate beneath her hide. I assumed she was doing this because she wanted to be warmer and that her instincts would stop her if it was TOO warm. Is that not the case? Do I need to ensure that there is no place in the tank that is above 85 degrees, even if the temperature on top is only 78?

** I'm just saying it never gets above 86 degrees in my cage, anywhere. And most of the folks around here are the same. Since we have no idea how your cage was set up, and what type of equipment you used, again it's i,possible to say. Some cages hold heat better than others. Some thermostats creep up and down more than others. Some heat pads get hotter than others. Some lights put off more heat than others. I simply don't know what your situation was, but I will say 92 degrees is too warm for a corn snake.
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Buy a snake that is 3 to 6 months old rather than a hatchling.......... I was under the impression that common practice among breeders was to sell snakes once they were fed a few times as opposed to months down the line. None of the online sellers I've checked list how old the animals are but most say 10-12 inches which sound like just hatchlings to me. can you recommend one that sells more established animals?

** If you shop around, you can find corn snakes that are bigger and older. You don't "Have to Buy a newly hatched baby." Buying a pet snake is not much different than buying a used car. The salesman wants your money and will tell you what you want to hear a lot of times.
 
Old 03-07-2019, 10:56 AM   #5
Twolunger
Other than the heat issue, too warm inside the hide, the big problem was buying an unhealthy corn. It should have shown continued growth but didn't. Your set-up was better than many I have seen, and your corn should have thrived. As far as taking the corn to the vet for an initial checkup, most vets don't know as much about corn snakes as many of our forum members. I do like to have a feces sample analyzed but most vets won't, or can't, do it without seeing the snake first. They will check for mites and obvious discharge from the nares, and comment on the snake's overall condition, but that's usually the extent of the visit, other than depleting your wallet. You may ask the obvious question, why did my snake die? Nobody can answer that definitively, but sometimes hatchlings just don't develop properly internally to process the prey they are eating. Another reason could be an impaction caused by ingesting particles of substrate. Although mites may have added to the situation, it would take quite an infestation to cause death. I agree with Karl that a well started corn snake is the way to go when you are ready to replace yours. If you go to the Fauna Classifieds you will find several corns for sale. There are members on this forum who may have an extra corn that they could sell. I will also recommend South Mountain Reptiles as a good source of corns, and Don has a solid reputation.
 

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