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Health Issues/Feeding Problems Anything related to general or specific health problems. Issues having to do with feeding problems or tips.

Feeding the Unwilling
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:20 AM   #1
jaxom1957
Feeding the Unwilling

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I enjoy the challenge of working with hatchlings that don't want to eat on their own. I've been very successful in converting those I have to feeding on their own, with no apparent ill effects from their days of being force-fed. I've let the breeders with whom I have a good rapport know that I will take in non-eating hatchlings and work with them.

Yesterday, I received eight hypo hatchlings (4.4) that aren't eating on their own. I'm going to do my best to keep their weight up and teach them to eat on their own. If I'm successful, most will be placed in pet homes. This thread will serve as a diary of my progress (or lack of it).

My first step was to assign each hatchling a number so that I can tell them apart and chart the changes in the habits and health. Not feeling especially original last night, I designated them Hypo 1M, Hypo 2M, etc. These are their initial weights:

Hypo 1M: 4.8 grams
Hypo 2M: 4.9 grams
Hypo 3M: 4.7 grams
Hypo 4M: 5.9 grams
Hypo 1F: 5.1 grams (culled: kinks)
Hypo 2F: 4.5 grams (culled: kinks)
Hypo 3F: 6.0 grams (culled: kinks)
Hypo 4F: 6.3 grams
 
Old 08-03-2007, 05:09 AM   #2
jaxom1957
The snakes hatched out the second week of June. I don't believe they've ever eaten on their own, and I don't believe they'd been force fed either. While many people would wait longer than six weeks before resorting to force feeding, I take a more proactive position. I lost one truly beautiful and rare hatchling that I received from a breeder because she was too weak by the time I got her to respond to my feeding attempts. If a hatchling has never shown a willingness to feed itself by a month after its first shed, I'm going to get some nutrition into it as soon as I can. The longer I wait, the weaker the snake will be and the less it will be able to overcome the stress of being force fed.

My plan is to offer the hypos an opportunity to eat every four days, just as I do my other babies. If they don't eat after an hour, they get fed. If they don't eat at the next feeding, four days later, they go hungry until the time after. I will let them skip every other feeding in hopes that hunger will motivate them to eat. I will not let them go without food longer than those eight days. At first, they will each get one small pinkie. If they grow to a point where I feel they can tolerate more, I will give them a second. If I feel they are not maintaining weight on one pinkie every eight days, I will forgo the skipped meals until I get their weight up to what I find healthy.

This evening, each had the opportunity to eat. As expected, they ignored the pinks completely. After more than an hour, I began force feedings. I was able to get one small pink into each of them, with no regurges after four hours. While handling them, I noted kinks on some hatchlings. The presence of kinks had been brought to my attention before the snakes were brought to me, so this was not surprising. The severity of some of the kinks may require that some of the babies be euthanised. Hypo 1F has at least three moderately large kinks, and Hypo 1M has at least one, half way down his spine. How these kinks hamper the snakes' abilities to move and digest food remains to be seen. If, in my opinion, a particular hatchling is so impaired it cannot survive and have at least a fairly pain-free adult life, I will cull it. Doing so does not come easily to me, and I will do my utmost to find solutions that prevent having to take a life.

Kinking may be more environmental than genetic, but any kinks forward of the vent, at least in a female, render the snake unbreedable, IMHO. The stress of egg production on the spine is simply too unpredictable, and the risk to the snake too high. When coupled with poor feeding responses as hatchlings, the snakes are suitable only to be well-loved pets. I won't be keeping any with kinks and will require that never breeding the snake be an agreed upon condition of adoption. You might have noticed that I haven't mentioned the genetics behind the hypos; this is intentional. If a snake is never to be bred, the genetics are completely irrelevant. They are visual hypos, period.

Enough for tonight. The hypos are each in their own 25 ounce containers with cut-down plastic dixie cups for water and a quarter of a paper towel for substrate. Tomorrow, I'll dig out some cardboard paper towel tubes and make them some little hides. At this time of year, I have no additional heat source with any of my snakes. I live in the central valley in northern California, with daily temps running from 75 to 105, rarely dropping below 65 at night. In these temperature ranges, the snakes should be fine at room temp, and I check water bowls daily. I don't use A/C, don't even have so much as a window unit installed.

Wish me and the snakes good luck. I'll give them my best effort.
 
Old 08-03-2007, 05:16 AM   #3
Cat_Eyed_Lady
my heart goes out to you and I wish you all the very best of luck with these little babies.
 
Old 08-03-2007, 07:25 PM   #4
diamondlil
And I was called a glutton for punishment for re-habbing Skooge! I'll be glued to this thread and willing you success all the way Jaxom. If a 'special needs' hatchling has a guaranteed home then I personally see no harm in giving it a good shot at survival
 
Old 08-03-2007, 08:25 PM   #5
jaxom1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondlil
And I was called a glutton for punishment for re-habbing Skooge! I'll be glued to this thread and willing you success all the way Jaxom. If a 'special needs' hatchling has a guaranteed home then I personally see no harm in giving it a good shot at survival
My big concern was whether my hands could handle feeding so many at one time. I have fibromyalgia, a joint and connective tissue disease that in many ways mimics both arthritis and CFS. The joints in the hand holding the snake can cramp painfully. In fighting the pain and cramping, I actually discovered a more efficient way to hold the snake for feeding. Previously, I'd always held the snake atop a towel on a flat surface, and it always worked well. Because I was feeding for a longer period, I had to find a way to get the food in more quickly before my hand spasmed and I had to put the snake down. I found that holding the snake against my chest, looking straight down into its mouth, made getting the pinkies, most especially the ones that split open, much, MUCH easier. Instead of the blobs constantly falling out the sides, gravity helped to keep them going in the right direction.

Hey, does holding a hatchling against your chest with one hand while forcing a pinkie into its throat with a pushrod with the other qualify as "Advanced Snake Handling"?
 
Old 08-04-2007, 12:31 AM   #6
kathylove
Have you tried sitting down, putting the snake's tail between your knees, leaving both hands free to deal with the snake? That is the way I do it.

Keep up the good work!
 
Old 08-04-2007, 01:32 AM   #7
jaxom1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathylove
Have you tried sitting down, putting the snake's tail between your knees, leaving both hands free to deal with the snake? That is the way I do it. Keep up the good work!
I am dying over here, trying to imagine holding a nine inch hachling's tail between my knees, bending over my middle-age belly, focusing through my bifocals and manipulating a pink into his mouth. This is not a pretty picture, but it is an out loud belly-buster laugh! Thanks for that
 
Old 08-04-2007, 01:37 AM   #8
susang
Sorry Jaxom but not totally understanding, do you force feed blended through a tube or do you try to put a pinkie down whole. What if the baby is too small for a pinkie do you try a head or tail?
Sorry to hear about your dx, I completely understand. I have fibromyalgia, plus degerative disc disease and crappy knees, I'm a mess but luckily the back spasms are rare. susan
 
Old 08-04-2007, 03:12 AM   #9
jaxom1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by susang
Sorry Jaxom but not totally understanding, do you force feed blended through a tube or do you try to put a pinkie down whole. What if the baby is too small for a pinkie do you try a head or tail?
Whole pinkies. I sort out the smallest of the small pinkies in my order and feed them first, using up the bigger ones as the snakes grow. I fed tails to the first snake I had to force feed, snipped off the fuzzies before I fed older snakes. After watching hatchlings eat, I decided there is no such thing as "too small for a pinkie". I will sometimes snip a pinkie in half and feed first the front and then the back half, but the snake gets the whole mouse. I've never had a snake I force fed regurge, not once. For a description of how I feed, read this thread:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sho...373#post476373
 
Old 08-04-2007, 12:08 PM   #10
Thoth
Maybe this is a stupid question, but if you cut a mouse in half (even a pink), don't the insides just kinda spill out, making it even harder to force into a tiny unwilling mouth?

Kudos to you, btw, for doing what I think most of us would be unable to do.
 

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