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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Kastanie/Mahogany/Golden/Rosy/Bell's Sunrise/Copper Cornundrum
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:25 AM   #11
Chromatic Corns
What does the belly look like, Chris?
 
Old 08-26-2014, 07:52 PM   #12
chris68
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamwallaby View Post
What does the belly look like, Chris?
Whitish belly, almost black checkers with a red "stripe" that splits the belly in half...
 
Old 08-27-2014, 11:08 PM   #13
ratsncorns
Definitely keeping an eye on this thread as I have a suspect Mahogany.
 
Old 08-28-2014, 04:56 AM   #14
NiklasTyreso
Why should all snakes with the same gene look the same? Why can coppers and kastanie not have the same gene and look different?

Not all amelanistics look the same. Candycanes and ROs look very different, but both are still just amels.
The same should be true with copper/kastanies too.
 
Old 08-28-2014, 09:18 AM   #15
dave partington
Candycane, and Amel are not baseline classics. Red Candycanes are out of pure amel corn X heavy gray base Miami locality, siblings bred back together to produce the F2. Orange candycanes contain the emoryii. RO is a selectively bred morph. You are confusing pure baseline classics which have been proven to contain no hets, thus no visual modifiers-- with snakes containing simple recessives. I believe most of us have seen instances of snakes which we have produced/hatched ourselves, in which their color is affected in the F1, by the hets they carry. When showing the differences of the various genes, it is important to make certain that they have no hets, to accurately showcase the true base gene.

Breeding together two similar looking classics results in more similar looking classics, but proves nothing.

One would need to use, for instance, two females: a kastanie and a copper, which have been proven to not contain any hets, which will take some time (years) to prove out in advance of the breeding.
Secondly, for instance, use a pure lavender male, which also, through years of advance test breeding, is proven clean and free of hets. Only then can a clean test breeding be done, by breeding the lavender to the kastanie and the copper. All of those babies will need to be retained and raised, and in the F2s, from each project, when the Sib X sib pairings are made, will the proof of them being the same gene, or different genes, finally become apparent.

I believe this sort of covers what Terri meant by "who understands genetics" meant in her post.
 
Old 08-28-2014, 10:42 AM   #16
Chromatic Corns
^^ exactly, we are trying to determine if these are different variation within the same morph or are they actually different genes. And this is also why I posted my pair. They are F2 but the red wash on the male differs from the female. I'm not convinced yet that the male contains no other "red" genes, like a red factor or something maybe? I'd like to know if any of the morphs we are discussing have a red wash to the belly? When breeding these morphs, does red wash show in any of the offspring?
 
Old 08-28-2014, 03:23 PM   #17
NiklasTyreso
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave partington View Post
You are confusing pure baseline classics which have been proven to contain no hets, thus no visual modifiers-- with snakes containing simple recessives.
Not at all. I just said that the variation of the phenotype is big even with snakes that are homozygous for the same single recessive gene.

The recessive gene have its influence on phenotype, but locality or line of breeding also influence phenotype.

If kastanie and copper is the same recessive gene but look different because of different lines/background/polygenetics, you will get F2s that show a spectrum of phenotypes betwen hatchlings from kastanie

If kastanie and copper are not the same gene, but they are co-dominant, then you will get distinct proportions in F2 with some kastanies, some coppers and some codominant copper-kastanies.

If you get proportions of phenotypes in F2 or spectrums of phenotypes answers the questions.
 
Old 08-28-2014, 04:20 PM   #18
dave partington
Oh okay then, I misunderstood, like cremesicle and orange candycane are the same thing (both being emoryi +guttata+amel), but are different looking because of the locality 'other parent' base stock. Though using a combination like that for a test would yield results all over the place anyways.
 
Old 09-02-2014, 07:25 AM   #19
snakepunk
Not to get off subject, but I've had some really nice Serpenco brand candycanes that were orange on white. Rich said there was no emoryi involved.

As far as recessive hets influencing phenotype, if that was the case they wouldn't be recessive.


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Old 09-02-2014, 07:27 AM   #20
snakepunk
Unless of course, I'm begging the question, just look at the variation between the American and German lines of kastanie. There's quite a difference there!


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