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Corn With BAD Attitude

I've had a number of SK Corns that have been feistier than others.

Not necessarily a morph thing, but I've heard that it's not uncommon for snakes that were problem feeders as babies can sometimes produce babies that are problem feeders as well.

Back on the feisty thing, that tends to lead to easy feeders, IMO, in the ones I've had.

There was some discussion on that a few years back, and I recall seeing someone saying they were going to work on producing "more handleable" Cornsnakes.

To each their own, but I see that could potentially cause a decline in quality/healthy snakes. Look what it has done to so many dog breeds, when "breeders" water down working traits on working dogs to make their better suited for "pet homes".

Outcrossing is important, especially in these scenarios, not necessarily to "normals" but separate blood lines.
Too much inbreeding is having an impact on the quality/health of babies being produced. With snakes, it's different than with dogs, you can do some inbreeding or linebreeding, but there are limits.

How many 1.1 pairs of a clutch are some, only to be bred when they're old enough, and 1.1 pairs are sold, and bred, and so forth. That's a LOT of continued inbreeding.
Inbreeding/line breeding can be done to bring out desired traits, but too much can and will weaken genetics.

I had to take a step back in my breeding projects, but I hope in a couple years, I'll be able to ramp that back up.
 
All very valid points. I wasn't suggesting inline breeding though I know it does occur to bring about the morphs we see. I am also not suggesting to breed aggression into lines either. I am simply curious as to linkage or coincidence for behavior traits and morphs.

It would make sense that behavior could be individualized and passed down as seen in other animals. This could be possibly be why we are seeing SKs and Okeetees being a bit on the feisty side especially if line breed and temperament diluted when outcrossed.

As far as the feeding behavior, my big anery male has never been a problem feeder and you can practically put your hand in there when he's eating. He got the name Vladimir for a reason. On the other hand, one of my much less outgoing and somewhat cranky snakes was picky on what she'd eat. Who knows. Lots of variables and a long term project.... also potentially lots of hatchlings having to be kept or followed up with new owners.
 
I was replying in general, not to anyone specific. I hope no one took exception to it.

There 's still so much to be learned about snake genetics.
 
Heck, I always found the Amber Corns I had produced were about the easiest going of the bunch. Very inquisitive and seemed to want to have human company. I would have to say they were my favorites because of the personality traits.

And for years, Connie bred her leopard geckos, not for looks, but for personalities. And she got dramatic results, too. Newly hatched babies learned VERY quickly who the "mom" was, and would clamor to be taken out of their cages to be held.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgUiAmgMezs
 
Rich Z that's awesome! That's how my anerys are too. I wonder if you'd get the same results with corns as with geckos?
 
Raven said:
Rich Z that's awesome! That's how my anerys are too. I wonder if you'd get the same results with corns as with geckos?
Click to expand...

It would make sense that personality traits would be just as influenced by the genetic makeup as colors and patterns are, so why not? But I think it would be a bit more difficult to measure results immediately in the offspring as you can with colors and patterns. Most of the time, anyway.
 
It's hard to judge the results of breeding for personality traits when most corns are already personable. It would be much easier if 75 or 80 percent of corn snakes showed aggressive tendencies and you could work with the remaining percentages to set the desired personality traits.

I helped a friend move all his pythons to Georgia. He had some beauties but each time we stopped in front of a cage they would strike at us, thus hitting the glass. To each his own, as they say, but I'd never want to keep an aggressive snake that was over 10 feet long. I asked him why he would keep snakes like that and he said the value is in the morph, not how nice they handled.
 
I wouldn't really want to own any animal that's overly aggressive. If they are only breeding for color/pattern/morph then there probably would be a health/temperament trade-off. I'm sure not everyone breeds strictly on appearance, or at least I would hope not.

Yes, a behavior/personality study would be very long term and difficult. There are definitely differences. I have some that will hide almost all the time and others that will follow you around to get your attention. Then there are the crabbier corns.... The possibility that out going attention seeking traits are inheritable or linked to a morph seems very plausible, though difficult to confim, in my opinion.
 
I remember doing a show, and one of the corns I brought along (I don't remember the cultivar, unfortunately), copped an attitude at the thought that I wanted to sell him. He just became EXTREMELY anti-social, and was striking at everything that came near the display case on the table. I had to pull him out, and of course, he bit the heck out of me in the process. What really was unusual was that he was biting me right through the bag whenever my hand touched against him. Never saw a corn snake do that before. But obviously he wanted to draw blood, and literally jumped at the chance if offered.

Anyway, not sure how the conversation turned to it, but I mentioned to a guy in front of the tables about this feisty creature I had bagged up in back, and he expressed interest. I told him I was considering just tossing him out the door of the vehicle on the way home up route 75. Maybe even slowing down a little before the toss. (Kidding..... well, maybe not :grin01: ) He asked to take a look at him, and of course the monster was biting everything he could get in front of his nose. These were not little nibbles, but full out BITES, really putting his heart into it! The guy said he liked animals with "spunk" to them, so I just gave him the thing and good riddance. I just hope that corn snake didn't wind up killing the guy. I'd feel pretty bad about that. But I do hope he never bred that thing. I would hate to think offspring with that temperament are out there somewhere.

And speaking of sort of attitude, I remember the first year I was successful produce gray banded king babies. I had something like 40 of them hatch out, and I was ecstatic! Gorgeous little living gem animals! That wouldn't eat pinky mice to save their lives. Or my sanity. None of them. So I had to buy house geckos and tried to rustle up some local Sceloporus to keep them alive until eventually some went over to pinky mice via the scenting route. WAY labor intensive! Tell you what, that burned me out of my interest in gray banded kings in a hurry. And I have had corn snakes the same way. The original line of Bloodred corns used to be like that. They were terribly difficult to get feeding.

Some animals are just not going to play by the rules that you want them to play by. Expect losses, and expect some aggravation and disappointments. They will be inevitable, so you might as well just accept it and plan on dealing with it beforehand.
 
Hello Mausssen! While there are many knowledgeable and experienced keepers on this forum(the best out there regarding corns) , I have limited experience having kept only three corn snakes in my lifetime. I'm more of a Boid guy, but corns are great too! So with that being said I'll offer my opinion as such, just my opinion. It sounds to me as if your snake has not been interacted with much , or enough, prior to coming into your care. I would acquire a snake hook and research the proper use of it. Make sure you're offering an appropriate sized prey item and your temps are in the 85* warm 75* cool range , give or take a couple of degrees, 55-65 percent consistent humidity , with appropriate snug fitting, one way in and out hides. Plenty of cover can do wonders for calming any species of insecure snake. Build a consistent handling and maintenance routine if one is not in place currently. If he doesn't settle down for you and you need to move him on please try and do so to a responsible party, for the sake of the snake and your own peace of mind. I have two Carpet Pythons kept in separate identical cages , same routines , same everything. One is puppy dog tame and the other is a display only snake. They're are both loved and admired. Best wishes!!

Sent from my 5049Z using Tapatalk
 
boidavid said:
Hello Mausssen! While there are many knowledgeable and experienced keepers on this forum(the best out there regarding corns) , I have limited experience having kept only three corn snakes in my lifetime. I'm more of a Boid guy, but corns are great too! So with that being said I'll offer my opinion as such, just my opinion. It sounds to me as if your snake has not been interacted with much , or enough, prior to coming into your care. I would acquire a snake hook and research the proper use of it. Make sure you're offering an appropriate sized prey item and your temps are in the 85* warm 75* cool range , give or take a couple of degrees, 55-65 percent consistent humidity , with appropriate snug fitting, one way in and out hides. Plenty of cover can do wonders for calming any species of insecure snake. Build a consistent handling and maintenance routine if one is not in place currently. If he doesn't settle down for you and you need to move him on please try and do so to a responsible party, for the sake of the snake and your own peace of mind. I have two Carpet Pythons kept in separate identical cages , same routines , same everything. One is puppy dog tame and the other is a display only snake. They're are both loved and admired. Best wishes!!

Sent from my 5049Z using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Out of Curiosity, what kind of Carpet Pythons? While they can be different individually, in general, they can be known for particular temperaments.
Jungles tend to be more feisty (especially the Zebras), IJ's typically more laid back, Coastals and Inlands are generally pretty easy to handle (although Inlands are very active, they're easy to handle).
 
MysticExotics said:
Out of Curiosity, what kind of Carpet Pythons? While they can be different individually, in general, they can be known for particular temperaments.
Jungles tend to be more feisty (especially the Zebras), IJ's typically more laid back, Coastals and Inlands are generally pretty easy to handle (although Inlands are very active, they're easy to handle).
Click to expand...
Just as you think Mystic , super mellow , non head shy IJ , and a forever irate jungle ! Lol

Sent from my 5049Z using Tapatalk
 
boidavid said:
Hello Mausssen! While there are many knowledgeable and experienced keepers on this forum(the best out there regarding corns) , I have limited experience having kept only three corn snakes in my lifetime. I'm more of a Boid guy, but corns are great too! So with that being said I'll offer my opinion as such, just my opinion. It sounds to me as if your snake has not been interacted with much , or enough, prior to coming into your care. I would acquire a snake hook and research the proper use of it. Make sure you're offering an appropriate sized prey item and your temps are in the 85* warm 75* cool range , give or take a couple of degrees, 55-65 percent consistent humidity , with appropriate snug fitting, one way in and out hides. Plenty of cover can do wonders for calming any species of insecure snake. Build a consistent handling and maintenance routine if one is not in place currently. If he doesn't settle down for you and you need to move him on please try and do so to a responsible party, for the sake of the snake and your own peace of mind. I have two Carpet Pythons kept in separate identical cages , same routines , same everything. One is puppy dog tame and the other is a display only snake. They're are both loved and admired. Best wishes!!

Sent from my 5049Z using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Well thank you very much for the input. Handling has been getting better. But I do also agree that he was never socialized by handling prior to being in my care!
 
So tonight my corn bit me real good and held on. This is the first time he bit and held on for good. I tried to avoid letting him wrap coils around my hand as he did. I managed to not let him wrap coils around my hand and then ran some luke-warm water over his head and he immediately let go. I now am worried he's having trouble realigning his jaws. Is this a concern? I am supposed to be going out of town tonight for a few days but am worried somehow he got hurt?
 
This was also the first time I handled without a long sleeve shirt. I have been handling multiple times a week with long sleeves and gloves with no problem what-so ever. Then tonight, I had gloves and a short-sleeve. As soon as he slithered to my skin he bit as hard as possible and latched on.. Any thoughts??
 
Your snake's jaw should be fine. I had a baby that twisted its jaw funny due to a shed getting stuck. Took a few days but was fine after that.

I'm not an expert by any means, but it still sounds like a scent thing to me or his reaction to something you do when he touches your skin? Maybe he gets nervous or defensive if you tense up or flinch?

I know it sounds odd, but try recording an entire session of you working with him. That way you, or someone else, can try to better evaluate what happens. If you can watch as a third person or have anther set of eyes (or hundreds if you post it), it may be easier to pinpoint the triggers/cause?

And sorry he bit you again. It does sound like you are making progress though and definitely deserve some pats on the back for dedication.
 
Raven said:
Your snake's jaw should be fine. I had a baby that twisted its jaw funny due to a shed getting stuck. Took a few days but was fine after that.

I'm not an expert by any means, but it still sounds like a scent thing to me or his reaction to something you do when he touches your skin? Maybe he gets nervous or defensive if you tense up or flinch?

I know it sounds odd, but try recording an entire session of you working with him. That way you, or someone else, can try to better evaluate what happens. If you can watch as a third person or have anther set of eyes (or hundreds if you post it), it may be easier to pinpoint the triggers/cause?

And sorry he bit you again. It does sound like you are making progress though and definitely deserve some pats on the back for dedication.
Click to expand...

I definately will have to try the recording idea. I think that’ll help. I wonder if it’s more my scent from soap I use that is upsetting to him.

I’m okay with the bites.i understand that they are wild animals and not all animals love being held by giants :eatsmiley
 
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