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co housing snakes

do you agree with co housing snakes?


  • Total voters
    266
You keep saying that you don't want to bin them because it goes against your beliefs.
So why not get a shelving unit that holds 20-30 gallon tanks?
Or if anyone in your family is handy you can build multi level display tanks.
Then everyone is happy.
 
The thing is you posted at the end of a thread where much flaming had happened...LOL saying 'I co-hab' and 'happy' in the same sentence.
That was never a good way to start.. ;)


Yes, there were a lot of responces on this thread. I read thru them all. I saw some heated responces. Guess I should have expected a few people to get nasty with me. A few were for co-habbing, but most against it. Many just said dont do it but didnt give reasons why its bad. Thats what I was looking for. Experience. Studies, etc. I should have explained myself better. I also shouldnt have said "happy", I should have just said they dont show any aggression at this point. I havent had them long. They were co-habbed for a long time before they came to me is all. I just hadnt changed anything yet. I was researching advice and opinions on whether to leave them together or if I should maybe seperate them. Thats why I read all the responces. I wanted advice, not to get chewed out. I wondered if maybe when they mature they wouldnt get along as well as they seem to now. I thought I might better consider getting some ideas and maybe seperate them before something happens.

Thank you for the help. Experienced advice is always welcome.
 
Actually I hadnt heard of that until joining a few days ago. I do keep them seperate and sanitize my hands between going from 1 tank to another. I dont put any of the snakes together either. I was just using common sense. I hadnt thought about doing it for quarantine reasons till these newest rescues. I was worried about what all might be wrong with them based on the conditions they had been kept in. Thank you for the info. I am researching quarantine info now. How long etc? The 2 I took in a month ago have not been exposed to my established snakes, at least not directly. They are in the same room though. And of course none of them have been exposed to these newest rescues.
Thank you!

Ideally, 90 day minimum quarantine in a different room then your established snakes. Don't handle or take care of them until after your established animals. I would also suggest fecal tests for parasites and an acid fast test for crypto (a fecal sample is used for this one too) considering how sickly the rescues look. While hand sanitizers will kill your average germ, it won't stop the spread of some of the nasties that effect reptiles.

I have a very good friend who lost all but 3 of her cornsnakes two years ago (25+ died) when her animals were being taken care of by an individual who had crypto (which is incurable and highly contagious) in his collection and failed to notify her. I take quarantine and testing very seriously after seeing what the losses did to her.
 
No one has gotten nasty with you. Your interpretation of some of the no nonsense replies may have lead you to believe that they are, but there's no need to sugar coat anything when you're dealing with an adult, IMO.
 
I plan to listen to helpful, constructive advice. Not the overly negative responses. That isnt help, thats just being nasty to someone who wanted advice. Several people have offered very good advice and I plan to listen to them and am very thankful for their help.

Annnnnd...your still not telling us who's advice you're listening too. You did say some people were "for" cohabbing, should we assume they were the nice responses? Or are you going to listen to Kathy Love and quite co habbing? Or maybe make another post that still doesn't tell us what you plan on doing?
 
You keep saying that you don't want to bin them because it goes against your beliefs.
So why not get a shelving unit that holds 20-30 gallon tanks?
Or if anyone in your family is handy you can build multi level display tanks.
Then everyone is happy.


It isnt really beliefs, it just doesnt seem natural. At least the rack set ups I have seen dont. I havent been into this long enough to have beliefs or an opinion on what I feel is the right way to keep them. I just want the snake to be in a natural setting as well as, if I am keeping them, I want to be able to enjoy watching them. And I did state in 1 one my responces that I am hoping to have something built by the end of the summer. I can still have a tank set up but hold more in a smaller area. I joked and called it my snake entertainement center. Can a full grown corn live good in a 20 gallon tank? That doesnt look like it gives them much room. Our oldest snake is over 4 and over 4 ft long. She is currently in a 55 gallon.
What we are currently designing and hope to build is a rack of tanks about 38 in long, 20 in high and 15 in deep each. We could stack 4 tanks where we currently have 1 tank and stand.
 
No one has gotten nasty with you. Your interpretation of some of the no nonsense replies may have lead you to believe that they are, but there's no need to sugar coat anything when you're dealing with an adult, IMO.


Some of these responces on the thread were blunt but a few were far from helpfully nice. I actually got a personal message from someone I wont name who was rather nasty to me.
 
It isnt really beliefs, it just doesnt seem natural. At least the rack set ups I have seen dont. I havent been into this long enough to have beliefs or an opinion on what I feel is the right way to keep them. I just want the snake to be in a natural setting as well as, if I am keeping them, I want to be able to enjoy watching them.
Thats the difference between a pet corn in the lounge and a rescue station....You can no longer think of what you like, more what the snake requires to thrive, and protect your current stock...
 
Thats the difference between a pet corn in the lounge and a rescue station....You can no longer think of what you like, more what the snake requires to thrive, and protect your current stock...


So......Can a full grown corn live good in a 20 gallon tank? How does what we are designing sound? OK?
 
sorry

Those are beyond big enough.
32qt is what is used usually for adult cornsnakes and those tubs are 66qt.


Sorry, didnt see your responce till I had already answered "snakewispera snr".
So I guess what we are designing should be plenty big enough. I should be able to house 4-5 where I used to keep 1 55 gallon tank and stand. That will be very helpful regarding space, and should allow plently of space to keep the snakes healthy.

Thanks!!
 
I can never work out what 20 gal long or 32 quart relates to....We work in different. sizes over here....
Are you planning on rescuing any more snakes? Or do you think you may expand on the ones you have already got.....What I'm getting at is whats your overall plan, or is it 'suck it and see'? Thats what you need to be thinking about when you design accommodation.
 
As I have said on MANY other threads about the subject, I am not ENTIRELY against cohabbing, just ALMOST entirely against it. I have known of a couple of instances where very experienced keepers set up community tanks with certain herps in large, enriched enclosures, and found it to be entertaining, educational, and kept healthy herps that way.

But I ALWAYS advise beginners and intermediate keepers to avoid cohabbing because it just adds complications and dangers (the symptoms of which can be very subtle to the untrained eye), and beginners have enough to learn even when keeping things simple.

Kathy, those are excellent points. I have co-habbed on occassion but only with adult females who have been long term with me. It is exactly like you mentioned...


Once you have a few years experience and you really know your individual animals well, don't always give up your own judgment or willingness to experiment (in an educated way) to the crowds who are sure they know best. We would never learn anything new if everyone did that.

The least little sign of problems, change in eating habits, unusual behavior, etc is noticed and the separation is done. And I am in the snake room 8 to 10 hours daily, so when I choose those females to co-hab together, they are observed for their behavior and adjustment. I have many females who have no problems co-habbing with another. I have some who I don't even attempt to co-hab...their reaction, behavior, and feedings are affected.

What do I tell someone when I am asked...can I put these two together? I would be hypocritical if I adamantly said...absolutely not, corns should never be co-habbed...when I do it myself. I try to explain in a logical way all the reasons for not co-habbing...stress, possible cannabilism, feeding disorders, spread of disease if one is sick, possibility of breeding at too early of an age, etc., but in a polite way, not in one that is aggressive, demeaning, and authoritaritive. I stress to the individual...I do not recommend co-habbing or even attempting co-habbing with hatchlings, or juveniles, but yes, it can be done succesfully with some adults and subadults, BUT you must know your snake's 'personality' so to speak...and that takes time, not a week, not a month, and sometimes even longer than a year. If you feel you have absolute confidence that you know your snake well enough to recognize any signs of stress, odd behavior, etc and wish to try it at that time, then who am I to say it is wrong and something you shouldn't do.

But when you take on a new project, hobby, etc, it is often best to go with the established ways that have been shown to work best - that is what I do when starting something new.

Exactly as I feel Kathy. Folks will do as they please. If their mind is open for 'learning', they will learn, research, and make the decision for themselves. Demeaning them for co-habbing, debating with them and trying to convince them they are wrong accomplishes nothing other than acrimony. Educating in a positive manner with respect that the other individual is simply asking for information is a much more positive approach in my way of thinking. The choice will ultimately be theirs in the end to make. I don't think a knowledgeable breeder/hobbyest/corn owner is any less responsible simply because he chooses to do things a little different than the majority. It's those who adamantly say it's wrong that have the closed minds to the fact...it is possible and can be done successfully if you have the proper knowledge.

What's the old saying...there is more than one way to skin a cat. Having someone like yourself step forward and voice your thoughts is a very positive educational aspect of this thread.

Ruth
 
I don't really want to get into the co-hab or not debate, becasue I've never cohabbed before. So I don't have any direct experience with it. What I do know is that I've got a "tank rack", with four 20L tanks on it. The top row of the rack can also hold 2 ten gallon tanks. Here's a picture of it. It doesn't take up all that much room. So you don't really HAVE to do plastic bins.
 

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The choice will ultimately be theirs in the end to make. I don't think a knowledgeable breeder/hobbyest/corn owner is any less responsible simply because he chooses to do things a little different than the majority. It's those who adamantly say it's wrong that have the closed minds to the fact...it is possible and can be done successfully if you have the proper knowledge.


Ruth
I totally agree, but on an open forum with one month experts, it's easier to say never straight away.....IF they hang around long enough to gain the necessary knowledge....Great....
 
Y'know, if someone states they'd prefer an "environment as natural as possible" for their snakes, I've got a hint:

(The snakes don't know for "natural". They have itty-bitty pea brains.)

I'm all for aesthetics. I prefer to see an aquarium that's well decorated, and I can understand the desire to do the same for one's snakes. But please, understand that you're doing it for yourself more than anything.

If you really want a "natural" environment for your snakes, release 'em to the wild. Everything else is either "un-natural" (e.g., an escapee hanging out in your clothes hamper), captive, or both.

regards,
jazz

 
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