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Oh, Craigslist...

nfafan said:
BTW; some of these owners and their husbandry failings can directly be traced to the lack of knowledge and horrible advice on the part of pet store personnel that sell the animals and supplies.
I can count on one hand the number of reptile-knowledgeable sales staff I have encountered at the 3 "chain" pet stores in the western 'burbs of Yinzburgh.
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You'd be even more shocked at how many customers flat out don't want to spend the $$$ to properly set up the animal(s). Never mind management basically instructing associates to not up set the customer by refusing sale.

This is my moral and ethical dilemma when it comes to breeding any reptile. Even if properly educated, I don't actually know what the customer is doing on their end... How am I to guarantee something that I have no more control over once the animal is out of my possession?
 
NickP961 said:
What? You've never heard of that morph before?

Gosh, get with the program Christen!

:p
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No kidding, right? I am thinking if they really did have a peppermint okeetee it was not be just $100. I wonder if anyone is working on that? It might be cool.
 
HerpsOfNM said:
You'd be even more shocked at how many customers flat out don't want to spend the $$$ to properly set up the animal(s). Never mind management basically instructing associates to not up set the customer by refusing sale.

This is my moral and ethical dilemma when it comes to breeding any reptile. Even if properly educated, I don't actually know what the customer is doing on their end... How am I to guarantee something that I have no more control over once the animal is out of my possession?
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True. The local stores here are just trying to get animals out of the door, and sadly continue to lead folks to believe that you can home multiple snakes together based on their own display practices.
 
nfafan said:
True. The local stores here are just trying to get animals out of the door, and sadly continue to lead folks to believe that you can home multiple snakes together based on their own display practices.
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The corporation (Arizona-based) I work for has in-house veterinarians at the corporate level that have supposedly conferred with industry experts regarding the housing practices (= policies and procedures). I'm not sure who the industry experts encompass, but herp wise we are supplied by Reptile Industries=ReptiMart, Lasco (no CLUE who they are), and Sandfire Dragon Ranch. I assume :shrugs: that possibly since they are vendors that we (our veterinarians) may have partnered with them to come up with "safe" practices.

That said, when I've questioned things, e.g., ball pythons that still have umbilical scab tissue (policy is that all snakes sent to us are to have had at least 3 consecutive f/t meals) and we (=management) wonder why they aren't eating/withering away I get the spiel of, "well, they are suppose to have eaten 3 times, and are vet assured."

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not defending them. But, in these times a job's a job, even if I told myself I'd never work in a pet store again. I didn't like the experience 13 years ago out of high school, moved on to getting my bachelor degree all the while working at a Nature Center in a museum, then moved on to doing necropsies for a respiratory research facility, to now only find myself full circle again working for a pet store.
 
Lasco is Ty Park. He has a facility in SW Florida, an hour or two north of Reptile Industries / Repti Mart. When he first decided to add corns to his business years ago, he and his staff consulted me quite a few times on the best ways to set them up and care for large numbers. Sandfire Dragons is in southern California. I know all of those people and have been to the Florida facilities many times (just once to Sandfire). The owners are all very knowledgable and have been into herps for a long time. Both of the SW Florida businesses have been very generous to our local herp society (Calusa Herp Society) over the years. Their places are very nice, and well maintained, considering how many animals they deal with. I am especially amazed by Reptiles Industries - state of the art main building, with lots of smaller buildings and outdoor pens on 20 acres. Ty also has acreage - I think maybe 12 or so. Sandfire also had some acreage, but a little less as I remember. Maybe 10? It has been lots of years since I was there.

They all take as good of care as possible of the animals. BUT - when you are dealing with 10s of thousands of inexpensive animals, there is no way you can devote the same amount of time and space to each one as somebody who has a few clutches each year. I have asked them (and also Bill Brant from Gourmet Rodent, who also supplies some of the big chains) why they can't educate the shops, many of which still feed crickets to corns and keep them piled many to a cage, so they would get better care in the stores? They have all told me that they have tried, but it depends SO MUCH on the individual managers of each store. They said that some managers care about the herps and try to learn, others won't bother, or won't listen. I do wish those stores would just avoid selling herps.

I believe the main problems with herps in shops lie more with individual stores rather than the supplier. BUT - I also believe that part of the problem is because the herps are too cheap, and by the time expenses are factored in, the volume is just too big for the profit to allow the same kind of care that hobbyists would give. Even though those suppliers are friends of mine, I would rather see individual stores acquire their herps from local breeders, face to face, or at local shows. And I would rather shops not carry herps at all if they don't have the passion and knowledge to do it properly. Unfortunately, that is wishful thinking, not reality.
 
"I have 3 pretty corn snakes for a small rehoming fee of $20.00. They have all eaten three times and have shed. Mother is a Carmel and Father is a normal/red mix with anery some where in the bloodline. I don't know if they are male or female and pictures are hard to take of these little guys."
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I wonder what a normal red mix is? At least he has them eating.
 
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bar/4026046187.html
An albino, milky(?) corn snake. In a 20 ft terrarium. (typo of course, it's a 20 gallon.) But there's also a 45 gallon feeding tank. Why wouldn't you keep her in the bigger tank? Also, no hides. I think the pictures were taken at different times too. In the first picture, I think I can see her spine, but in the other ones she looks ok.
 
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