:shrugs: You know the thing I've always hated about this forum? It's the fact that things get beat to death.
There have been SEVERAL people that said it didn't matter if the Tessera was a hybrid. Therefore it MUST not matter if they are hybrids or not. I won't convince you, and you ARE NOT going to convince me, (PLEASE, please, believe me,
I tried to convince me, it it didn't work either.) ... So go feed the snakes you have (or whatever you care to do that will comfort you) and think pleasant thoughts. Have a beer, a smoke, a toke, whatever. Take a nap have pleasant dreams...:cheers:
Stop reading here, and let it die.
But you can't can you?
Eh? Niether can I...
Alright then. Let's address some of these things, that others have said, that disturb me then shall we? Get comfy this is going to be LOOOONG!
First:
I said my piece in the other thread. I've had the chance to examine Tessera's up close and personal. In my opinion, definitely not hybrids. Again, I think anyone who cries "HYBRID" right off the bat is just jealous they didn't make the discovery. That's really what it seems to boil down to. Can you imagine what must have been thought when the first lavender's appeared on the market?....
You've met me. Do I come off as the jealous type? Let's discuss it in person some time.
Second: Shiari ...You've already been proven wrong once...
What Whoty is failing to take into consideration is that Tessera is a single genetic mutation. If it was the result of hybridisation, it wouldn't be a dominant trait, and would not pass down steadily and in such an obviously dominant fashion.
Why not? Prove it. Oh wait you were already proven wrong again there, already. Let's move on...
Ah, but are not people claiming that this pattern is the result of a corn being bred to a snake with a similar pattern? It would be like breeding a corn to a garter and expecting to get tesseras. In fact, the tessera pattern is quite common in the snake world... just doesn't tend to be a dominant trait, perse. And even if a dominant from a hybrid... the early generation "normal" offspring should carry genetic traces of that hybrid ancestor...We could easily see pictures of those animals, and I'll bet you none of them look any different from a normal corn snake.
Ah,... it's PER SE. :nyah: And it is a dominant trait in Leopard Rats, or so I am led to believe. So breeding it into corns, even artificially, would help it become dominant in corns too.
One thing I thought I'd mention....
Hybrid or not, it still is acting UNLIKE a recessive gene. Find me a hybrid, corn, rat, king, colubrid X that has the codom/dominant gene expression we are seeing here. I know it is in boas and ball pythons...but the only colubrids that come to mind are the ultramel (only with amel) and then those persian pied ratsnakes (or whatever they are) and there may be a south american species or two. Granted, I am not very familiar with other pet industry colubrids beyond the domestic stuff...but I'm drawing a blank.
Basically, what I'm saying is that even "IF" it was a hybrid....it is pretty cool that it does not act recessive and that it DOES act codom/dominant. I.e. it seems to be a "new" gene any way you slice it.
See above.
Burden of proof lies in the "omg it's a hibird" camp. Find me that ratsnake or king or milk species with the tessera pattern as a dominant trait. Should be fairly simple to do, yes?
Leopard rat snake ... AGAIN ...See above.
Striping in Zamenis situla is a naturally occurring form. There was a time when herpetologists though that the Striped & Blotched forms were different subspecies. The typical blotched situla were referred to as Elaphe situla var. leopardinus (Terentev & Chernov, 1949) and the striped referred to as Elaphe situla (Terentev & Chernov, 1949) or Elaphe situla var. quadrilineatus (Boulenger 1913).
Both striped and blotched situla can be found in the same areas in the wild. It also appears that you can get both occurring in the same clutch pretty much the same as with the Elaphe climacophora (striped and blotched) and Elaphe quadrivigata (melanistic and striped). The striped gene in situla is generally thought to be dominant to the Blotched, but the mode of inheritance needs to be examined further to state this with any accuracy.(Taken directly from the Ratsnake zone)
http://www.ratsnakezone.com/ratsnake-collection/zamenis/115-zamenis-situla-striped.html
As a breeder who has been in this for a long while, I have seen alot of new morphs be found.Everything single new gene usually always people said hybrid.I personally dont think they are.
Its not that hard to believe that it exists (Tessera)
Think about Aztec/Zigzag corns no Motley gene there,but yet it isnt recessive.
Not yet, but if you Cross in a Mexican Night snake...:shrugs: Couple gens of selective breeding...Some Motley her, a mockley there...
I'm going with Don Soderberg's statement "Other than appearance, all physiology is classically cornsnake, though the pattern complex resembles that of other species (including pattern mutations in other species). Arguably, no obvious (or cryptic) hybrid markers have been observed."
...
If the original Tesseras had been hybrids, exactly _what_ would have produced them??
Yes but are they really looking? Or are they so excited by the possibility of a new gene they are blind to the otherwise obvious or cryptic markers?
In a previous post about Tesseras, Graham mentions there are no signs of them being a hybrid, other then smaller clutches and/or smaller then normal babies (Something to that effect. Whatever Graham :nyah: ) Could that not in it's self be a sign of hybridization? How about if ya add in some crazy head patterns?
Any who...
...
Bellyache all you want, but if you really want to prove they are hybrids then you need to belly up to the bar and buy a pair. Of course it would be impossible to actually determine their origins since the latest generations would definitely be pure corn, but i think you should put your money where your mouth is.
...
In summation, suck it up and buy a pair and do your own work to discredit these fine people, or shut up and go about your day.
Umm... wouldn't it be easier to prove,( and cheaper as well) to cross a Leapard rat (or similar snake w/ a dominant trait) and a corn snake?
And lastly (saved the best for last!)
Hmm-
I see a BIG difference between them... one is a genetic pattern mutation and the other is missing most of it's scales 
On a serious note: We ALL know that Scaless Corns are actually a CREAMSICLE corn... they are a KNOWN hybrid (the orig. scaleless popped out of a clutch between a Corn X Emoryi). ...
Yeah but both are really expensive hybrids (In my Opinion. Just my opinion, and totally unsubstantiated.) :roflmao:
Do you have Tesseras or Scaleless corns? I DO have Scaleless Corn hets directly from BHB...I've invested in the project... I will sell them for what they are: Scaleless Creamsicle Corns and put the entire history/story on my website.
I know I'm beating a dead horse but if I had any evidence- or felt the slightest uneasiness- of the Tesseras purity, I'd be the first to admit it. I'm an honest guy with nothing to hide...
Well LA-DEE-DA! You have some really expensive hybrids. Good for You! Once AGAIN :nyah: I equate scaleless snakes to furless cats and rats. Interesting to see, but I wouldn't own one. I also wouldn't pay a premium for any of them. Even with a pedigree.
On A side note: Graham, I would like to thank you, you brought it to my attention, that I was not spending enough time here so here I am. (Even bought the coin nudge, nudge!
)
