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stupid breeders why cant you just leave things be

Dave, now you are speaking muddy to me... I taste some sarcasm but I'm not sure what you mean to say. Mind to explain? I am very curious.
 
Q: stupid breeders why cant you just leave things be

A: because then they would all be normal wild-types. the majority of consumers like new and improved. Like that lettuce or tomato you ate today. Or that hybrid chicken in the oven. Or your home made leather footwear. Perhaps we should junk out computers and go back to abacuses
 
Do the "purists" want to stop all intermingling of all non-standard, non-pure bloodlines everywhere? No mixing species, sub-species or anything else together. If the parents look different, and the offspring look like a mix of the parents, it is bad. That's the impression I'm getting. Now shall we just take that tiny hair's width of a step and start a race war? :rolleyes: Maybe we really need to redefine exactly what a "hybrid" is...
 
DMong said:
Ahhhhhh!!!, a person of sound science, hey???. please tell me of your wordly wisdom would you??

See, when a corn is tossed in with a Pueblan milk x Cal. king on purpose, I KNOW that isn't a "pure" corn standard. I'm smart like that. :D

Let's add some more grease to the tire treads so we can "spin the wheels" some more here, shall we??..HAHAHA!!! :twohammer


Anyway, yes,..."laughable" for darn sure........


~Doug
Click to expand...

I did tell you. But in case you missed it the first time, I'll try again. There is no such thing as a "pure" corn.

There's nothing to spin. There are just the facts you do not want to accept. Over the course of thousands of years, nature has mixed up the colubrid gene pool MUCH more then breeders have the past 20 years.

You can add all the cute little smilies, explanation points, whatever, but it doesn't make your point true or make you appear as smart as you think you are. A well reasoned argument would, but the best you can do is circular-reasoning.
 
So are you guy's saying that to have anything interesting it has to be "new and improved" with crossing and hybridization?..just wondering.


~Doug
 
SnakeAround said:
And what about calling hybrid breeders lazy/greedy/uneducated? I hope you are not avoiding that element of the discussion with someone who belongs to this group? It might be interesting!
Click to expand...

I'm just waiting for someone to say something otherwise. I'm not talking about corn snakes only, it's all snakes that I think about. You can repeat the same old over and over but you still sound the same. To think that the majority of people think that way just backs up what I said. You can't make someone stop doing something they want, it's not what I want at all. I agree, things change, there's always going to be the left and the right. You seem to have no problem with it, maybe one day YOU will change your mind. Your also right about me keeping my stuff the way it comes. Just like I will always oppose and you will defend. I have a feeling it would be easier talking politics with each other. Good luck with your animals.
Goodnight
 
Susan said:
Do the "purists" want to stop all intermingling of all non-standard, non-pure bloodlines everywhere? No mixing species, sub-species or anything else together. If the parents look different, and the offspring look like a mix of the parents, it is bad. That's the impression I'm getting. Now shall we just take that tiny hair's width of a step and start a race war? :rolleyes: Maybe we really need to redefine exactly what a "hybrid" is...
Click to expand...


.......HAHAHA!!!! :roflmao::roflmao:


Heck, let's go ahead and legalize murder too then....people have done that since the beginning of time too. Who cares about right or wrong or any consequences there? :D

You might be confusing Nazism with good ethics..LOL!


~Doug
 
DMong said:
.......HAHAHA!!!! :roflmao::roflmao:


Heck, let's go ahead and legalize murder too then....people have done that since the beginning of time too. Who cares about right or wrong or any consequences there? :D

You might be confusing Nazism with good ethics..LOL!


~Doug
Click to expand...

So it's a moral wrong to breed snakes that don't get your approval?
 
snakepunk said:
I did tell you. But in case you missed it the first time, I'll try again. There is no such thing as a "pure" corn.

There's nothing to spin. There are just the facts you do not want to accept. Over the course of thousands of years, nature has mixed up the colubrid gene pool MUCH more then breeders have the past 20 years.

You can add all the cute little smilies, explanation points, whatever, but it doesn't make your point true or make you appear as smart as you think you are. A well reasoned argument would, but the best you can do is circular-reasoning.
Click to expand...


Mr. Snakepunk,.....here's an "explanation" point for you. You quite obviously either didn't read any of the earlier posts I made, or no good sound reasoning matters to you anyway......which one is it?

The term "pure" is more accurate for chemicals or products, genuine, authentic, and un-tainted are all accurate terms for a wild-type snake. Don't try to give me a meristics or natural history lesson here on snakes. It doesn't appear to me we have the same opinion of what "sound reasoning" is, so there's not much use in continuing if you couldn't pick up on any of it yet.

If you think you know more about snake natural history or science than I do, then I am all ears snakepunk.



~Doug
 
Wow... a guy goes fishing for a few hours and comes home to find his intelligence being insulted, being called lazy and greedy.....wow.

First let me say the reason I asked Doug to take the discussion private was it was getting a bit personal and I for one do not like reading a bunch of drama on forums. I come to this forum to catch up on the latest and greatest and relax. If things get too heated it should be handled one on one, not treated as a public spectacle.

Secondly, I am a very educated man, I went to college for 6 years and have 2 degrees, so calling me stupid is uncalled for.

Now for the lazy part.
Anyone can throw two corns together or two "pure" hondurans together or anything else "pure" and watch them breed and get eggs.

Try getting a pueblan to breed a bull snake, or a honduran to breed a corn, it's not easy and takes a lot of patience, hard work and honestly a little more intelligence than you'd think.

So now we are comparing making hybrids to selling drugs and murder? Really? Really? Get a grip.

If you want to work with pure stuff that's great go for. I worked with pure breeds for years before I made my first hybrids and the majority of my collection is still pure breeds.

I love genetics and I love snakes so naturally corns were the perfect fit for me. One year I bred a corn to a honduran and the pic in my avatar was the result, I don't care how much you hate hybrids you have to admit that is an attractive snake.

This industry is evolving, I sell my hybrids quicker and on average for better money than the pure stuff unless it's really high end. No it's not all about the money and I'm not greedy, if I were I'd be breeding ball pythons and selling one animal for 5K but I do not like ball pythons and I won't work with a species I don't care for.

People such as myself that breed reptiles (and rodents in my case) for a living have to make money from there animals in order to make a living. I don't think that's greedy or exploiting the animals.

Btw I agree with you snakearound.
 
snakepunk said:
So it's a moral wrong to breed snakes that don't get your approval?
Click to expand...

No, it's perfectly fine to do whatever you want with whatever you want, at any time you want,........so keep on doin' whatever it was you were doin' snakepunk. Wouldn't want any "sound reasoning" to get in the way with whatever you want to do..LOL!

Ethics, or doing what might be best has nothing to do with meeting my personal approval snakepunk. Go throw some of your "sound reasoning" on someone that wouldn't know any better, huh?

BTW, can you fill me in on more of your natural history and meristic science snake knowledge?. I'm always wanting to learn as much about this as I possibly can......thanks!



~Doug
 
Ryan Beatty said:
Wow... a guy goes fishing for a few hours and comes home to find his intelligence being insulted, being called lazy and greedy.....wow.

First let me say the reason I asked Doug to take the discussion private was it was getting a bit personal and I for one do not like reading a bunch of drama on forums. I come to this forum to catch up on the latest and greatest and relax. If things get too heated it should be handled one on one, not treated as a public spectacle.

Secondly, I am a very educated man, I went to college for 6 years and have 2 degrees, so calling me stupid is uncalled for.

Now for the lazy part.
Anyone can throw two corns together or two "pure" hondurans together or anything else "pure" and watch them breed and get eggs.

Try getting a pueblan to breed a bull snake, or a honduran to breed a corn, it's not easy and takes a lot of patience, hard work and honestly a little more intelligence than you'd think.

So now we are comparing making hybrids to selling drugs and murder? Really? Really? Get a grip.

If you want to work with pure stuff that's great go for. I worked with pure breeds for years before I made my first hybrids and the majority of my collection is still pure breeds.

I love genetics and I love snakes so naturally corns were the perfect fit for me. One year I bred a corn to a honduran and the pic in my avatar was the result, I don't care how much you hate hybrids you have to admit that is an attractive snake.

This industry is evolving, I sell my hybrids quicker and on average for better money than the pure stuff unless it's really high end. No it's not all about the money and I'm not greedy, if I were I'd be breeding ball pythons and selling one animal for 5K but I do not like ball pythons and I won't work with a species I don't care for.

People such as myself that breed reptiles (and rodents in my case) for a living have to make money from there animals in order to make a living. I don't think that's greedy or exploiting the animals.

Btw I agree with you snakearound.
Click to expand...

It's funny, we have one thing in common, fishing. The rest is a different story. It's weird to say you don't do it to make money and then in the next paragraph say you need to make money doing this. I make my living with my animals and I hate ball pythons too. I don't cross stuff because that's stupid and destructive to me, you do because it's what you like. You don't have to do it in order to make a living, you do it for your own reasons.
I compared selling illegal drugs and legal drugs. There is a good way and bad way to do something. You may not think your way is bad and that's fine. It's right to do what ever serves you best. It doesn't make it good or make you smart, however smart you may be. I don't want to change your mind, only you can do that. Keeping doing what ever you want but don't get mad when people criticize you for it. Good luck...........
 
Doug, until you can show some maturity in your responses, I'm not wasting any of my time with you. Suffice to say, it doesn't help your point.
 
Gerards I'm glad we can agree to disagree in a civil manner.

Btw I caught 2 nice bass and a couple catfish.... Gotta love this warm spring.
 
snakepunk said:
Doug, until you can show some maturity in your responses, I'm not wasting any of my time with you. Suffice to say, it doesn't help your point.
Click to expand...

Using good logic and facts didn't help my point get across either, so what's the point?. If I wrote a ten page article on many valid reasons those who don't want to hear it would cup their hands over their ears anyway. It's always like that, that's exactly why I don't waste too much time in explaining all the different facets, just some of the basics.


Anyway, I'm done wasting my time..............



~Doug
 
Ryan Beatty said:
Gerards I'm glad we can agree to disagree in a civil manner.

Btw I caught 2 nice bass and a couple catfish.... Gotta love this warm spring.
Click to expand...

I will agree with that. I did a little bass fishing with Graham Miami last week. We were looking for kings so it didn't last long. My fishing season last all year, thank god!
82be0a73.jpg
 
I am like Doug, we both do not eat seedless watermelons due to the fact that they were hybridized, we prefer to only eat pure bred fruits and vegetables, and when we do find out that we have ingested a suspect food, we will induce vomiting to get it out of our pure blood systems. We do not get vaccinated against the new flu viruses, only the old school ones. When we went to see Napoleon Dynamite at the theater we got up and left at mere mention of the word "Liger." When we go snake hunting for wild caught snakes we stomp on the heads of any that we even remotely suspect to be inter-grades. If we know two populations of snakes to overlap we post "no mating" signs in the area, nature ain't gonna undo what evolution created, not on our watch! We hate hybrids so much that we have plans to picket the new car companies that make cars that use both gasoline and electricity to power themselves.

We do advocate inbreeding though, we love the fact that the different breeds of dogs are so inbred that many of those breeds have so little genetic diversity that if they were wild populations they would be considered doomed to extinction by ecologists. We only want new morphs of snakes if it comes through inbreeding. How else would we see hypo lavenders come about? Sure we will out cross them once in awhile, but that's only to inbred them later on, and when we do so, it'll only be with other purely inbred snakes. They only time we do not advocate inbreeding is when we can steal from nature fresh wild caught blood. The reason why this is permissible is because it just helps reduce the risk of natural hybrids and inter-grades, one less corn that can mate a rat snake and further make more mutts among us.

Anyone that disagrees with Doug and I have no ethics whatsoever. Anyone that argues with us better not plan on breeding and contaminating our gene pool, the consequences for those that do will not be good to say the least.
 
gelshark said:
I am like Doug, we both do not eat seedless watermelons due to the fact that they were hybridized, we prefer to only eat pure bred fruits and vegetables, and when we do find out that we have ingested a suspect food, we will induce vomiting to get it out of our pure blood systems. We do not get vaccinated against the new flu viruses, only the old school ones. When we went to see Napoleon Dynamite at the theater we got up and left at mere mention of the word "Liger." When we go snake hunting for wild caught snakes we stomp on the heads of any that we even remotely suspect to be inter-grades. If we know two populations of snakes to overlap we post "no mating" signs in the area, nature ain't gonna undo what evolution created, not on our watch! We hate hybrids so much that we have plans to picket the new car companies that make cars that use both gasoline and electricity to power themselves.

We do advocate inbreeding though, we love the fact that the different breeds of dogs are so inbred that many of those breeds have so little genetic diversity that if they were wild populations they would be considered doomed to extinction by ecologists. We only want new morphs of snakes if it comes through inbreeding. How else would we see hypo lavenders come about? Sure we will out cross them once in awhile, but that's only to inbred them later on, and when we do so, it'll only be with other purely inbred snakes. They only time we do not advocate inbreeding is when we can steal from nature fresh wild caught blood. The reason why this is permissible is because it just helps reduce the risk of natural hybrids and inter-grades, one less corn that can mate a rat snake and further make more mutts among us.

Anyone that disagrees with Doug and I have no ethics whatsoever. Anyone that argues with us better not plan on breeding and contaminating our gene pool, the consequences for those that do will not be good to say the least.
Click to expand...


That's a fabulous example of why it is a complete waste of time bothering to explain. Thanks for making the great illustration........


~Doug
 
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