Proposal regarding hybrids / pure corns

Until someone develops some sorry of special corn snake litmus paper it'll be much easier and cheaper to just deal with breeders who you can trust to tell you which snakes were paired up to produce the offspring.

Originally Posted by jkgeorge

Until someone develops some sorry of special corn snake litmus paper it'll be much easier and cheaper to just deal with breeders who you can trust to tell you which snakes were paired up to produce the offspring.

Sort not sorry, stupid autocorrect

Jkgeorge, I couldn't agree more with you. It is cheaper to take someone's word that a breeder has bred two snakes together than it is to prove it with dna testing which at best simply proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the progeny is from said snakes. Easier and cheaper, but not more accurate or precise by any means.

As for our hot gas comment... really? Is that all you have is a personal attack? Explain why you think it is hot air to dna test to prove parentage of the progeny you or others might produce.

CarpeSerpentis, how many of your snakes have been tested?

Originally Posted by airenlow

CarpetSerpenis, how many of your snakes have been tested?

Seriously, calling me a carpet ser penis now? I admit my opinion may be different from yours, but can you please post an opinion without a personal attack.
For the record, I love hybrids as well as corns. I'm not wound up in proving anything to be pure as I'm attracted to beauty and not papers. But I definitely see how many like pure specimens. I'm merely pointing out a very obvious and easy method of keeping pure lines and documenting the crosses in such a way so as to end disputes bearing in mind that the original stock was beyond repute. One need only apply logic to the matter without resorting to belittling or name calling. But if it makes you feel big to attack someone rather than the idea then go right ahead. I really feel for those that want pure specimens. I honestly don't believe anything is pure even in nature, but that is my belief. I believe that most animals are in transition or going extinct. Speciation is an ongoing process and not static and unchanging. But again, that is my personal belief backed up by many different branches of science.

Sorry, typo...honestly didn't mean to denigrate. Do you have pictures of your hybirds?

Originally Posted by Isoldael

Proposal

To define a definition of a pure corn that can be checked and regulated.

Reason for proposal

Whether or not a snake is a hybrid is obviously a very big deal for some people. At the moment, though, we have no way to check if a corn snake is completely pure. Who is to say that one of your snake's ancestors didn't breed with another species at some point, however many generations ago? What do we even define as a hybrid? Is a snake a hybrid even if the last hybridization was 500 generations ago? What makes a corn pure?

A good definition of a cornsnake should also specify behaviour patterns. I like corns as they used not to be agressive and they did not musk.
I think people that like to get bitten and musked on should breed other species than cornsnakes, just stop breeding such traits into cornsnakes.

I'm not against hybrids, I'm a 4 % neanderthal hybrid my self, but I like the good old nice tempered cornsnakes like they used to be.

My cornsnakes are still friendly and gentle.

Originally Posted by Carpe Serpentis

I believe that most animals are in transition or going extinct. Speciation is an ongoing process and not static and unchanging. But again, that is my personal belief backed up by many different branches of science.

That's my stand as well, which is why the whole "pure" thing doesn't interest me. That said, I have no interest in crosses like Kings x Corns etc, but I don't mind things so much that don't deviate from the particular species too much (i.e. Ultra gene).

For those that are into locality as their hobby, I could see this being something that would be in demand if the cost/benefit ratio ever comes down to earth.

Originally Posted by NiklasTyreso

A good definition of a cornsnake should also specify behaviour patterns. I like corns as they used not to be agressive and they did not musk.
I think people that like to get bitten and musked on should breed other species than cornsnakes, just stop breeding such traits into cornsnakes.

I'm not against hybrids, I'm a 4 % neanderthal hybrid my self, but I like the good old nice tempered cornsnakes like they used to be.

I like your addition of defining a cornsnake by its behavior patterns if that is something all could come to an agreement on and I can empathize with you wanting a breed of snakes that does not musk or bite. Behavioral traits are something that can be breed for though. One need only look at different breeds of other pet animals that have been bred to see that this is possible over time. Take the jackal dog hybrids that have been breed to be superior sniffers for just one example. Many of those hybrids were not fertile, but through selectively breeding a sustainable fertile breed was created with good temperament. My point is though, even a hybrid where some traits may be less desired in that hybrid... you can still through selective breeding breed out those less desired traits and keep the positive traits that one actually desires or wants. It just takes a few generations and hard work like creating any line of top quality morphs entails. One might even say that it takes more work to create a hybrid corn snake that not only looks different, but has a decent temperament. Does that mean the work should not be attempted? I don't think not doing something just because it takes more work to get all the desired traits to settle in while weeding out the undesired traits is enough of a reason not to hybridize.