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A little rant on courtesy and professionalism

Drizzt80 said:
[chain rattling]I've yet to see any evidence/proof that feeding breast and/or leg meat from a chicken is as healthy as feeding whole mice or rats.[/chain rattling]

The issue with the vinsters "feeding practice" was that it's not an effective replacement for the nutritional value found in feeding whole prey items. You want to use it as a supplement or save some extra cash doing it that way? Fine, be my guest. You want to tell me that it replaces feeding mice or rats? Your dead wrong and your snakes health will eventually suffer for it.

D80
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I've got no plans to feed my corns on anything but mice, personally.
 
diamondlil said:
I've got no plans to feed my corns on anything but mice, personally.
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I know you're not. I've just read enough posts by people who seem to think the "infamous vinster chicken feeding thread" was about bashing vinster over an """innovative""" idea OR it was about not liking vinny. It wasn't on either account. That's all. ;)

I'm all for change. I'm all for thinking outside the box. I'm all for new ideas. I like new ideas. I'm not creative enough to think of them on my own, but I feel as though I'm pretty darn good at making them better. :shrugs: Rich's two examples are perfect and I think they're great. The thing is, there was "evidence" to back up the idea of the change he shared. In the first example, the kids found new and different snakes. That's the evidence that looking in those places was a good idea. If they hadn't found anything though, it would have supported his buddies paradigm. In the second example, feeding earthworms isn't any different than attempting to feed chicken. The snake(s) will eat them, but the question(s) after the fact is whether it's the best possible solution as a regular diet OR is it a trick to use for non-feeders OR is it something that would be beneficial as a supplement.

D80
 
I know there was a lot more to it. I'd have to ask V-man if it's the sole diet for his snakes, I don't remember if he rotates it with mice. (And nooooooooooo, I'm not going back to re-read it).
 
Actually I was quite excited to read Rich's example of his friend feeding earthworms to his corn. I mean, MY snakes eat only f/t mice, but it's great to know that after I try chicken, tuna, brained, really hot, live, anole scented mice on my non feeders I have something else to try now, too!
 
starsevol said:
Actually I was quite excited to read Rich's example of his friend feeding earthworms to his corn. I mean, MY snakes eat only f/t mice, but it's great to know that after I try chicken, tuna, brained, really hot, live, anole scented mice on my non feeders I have something else to try now, too!
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I guess it isn't shocking that a hatchling with great feeding response might take an earthworm, but I'd be surprised if a problem/non-feeder that had rejected rodent pinks and anole or anole-scented prey would accept a worm. But who knows? I guess it's worth a shot if all else failed!

There's some thread around here where Mike Blickendorfer reported a successful feed of some insect grub to a hatchling, but I can't remember if the snake was a corn.
 
Drizzt80 said:
[chain rattling]I've yet to see any evidence/proof that feeding breast and/or leg meat from a chicken is as healthy as feeding whole mice or rats.[/chain rattling]

The issue with the vinsters "feeding practice" was that it's not an effective replacement for the nutritional value found in feeding whole prey items. You want to use it as a supplement or save some extra cash doing it that way? Fine, be my guest. You want to tell me that it replaces feeding mice or rats? Your dead wrong and your snakes health will eventually suffer for it.

D80
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Well, let me throw a curveball here. Why would anyone think that feeding a snake whole mice fed only on rodent chow would be identically equivalent meals that a wild snake gets? If you accept the premise that you are what you eat, and that is inclusive to mice a well, are mice that are fed only rodent chow the same, nutritionally, as wild mice? It could very well be that feeding non supplemented mice are really not that much better than chicken........ :shrugs: It's not just the mice themselves, but whatever they happen to have in their gut at that fateful time when they were wondering what they heck that flickering tongue of that snake was, that provides the nutrition to the snakes.

To ask more directly, how many of you provide vitamin and mineral supplements to your snakes along with the feed items?
 
Drizzt80 said:
You want to tell me that it replaces feeding mice or rats? Your dead wrong and your snakes health will eventually suffer for it.

D80
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That's a bold statement. If I wanted to read up on the suffering health of corn snakes that had their mouse diet switched to a meat, organ and bone diet where could I find that? If I had the knowledge your working from to form my opinions maybe I could have the same opinion as you?
 
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diamondlil said:
I know there was a lot more to it. I'd have to ask V-man if it's the sole diet for his snakes, I don't remember if he rotates it with mice. (And nooooooooooo, I'm not going back to re-read it).
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Last I heard, he's back to feeding rodents (quite a few years now). The chicken diet started out as a less expensive food as he was having financial difficulties at the time. He may still feed the odd piece of chicken, but I'm not that sure.
 
Rich Z said:
Well, let me throw a curveball here. Why would anyone think that feeding a snake whole mice fed only on rodent chow would be identically equivalent meals that a wild snake gets?
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I doubt wild snakes are skinning and deboning their meals in the wild regardless of what they are eating. I completely understand discussing something for discussions sake, but comparing a rodent raised on rodent chow to plain white chicken meat with no organs or bones?

To ask more directly, how many of you provide vitamin and mineral supplements to your snakes along with the feed items?
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I do even though I do feed whole rodent mice.

Austin M said:
If I wanted to read up on the suffer health of corn snakes that had their mouse diet switched to a meat, organ and bone diet where could I find that?
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You need to read the thread apparently. The vinster wasn't feding organs and bones, just meat, plain white chicken meat. I don't think my statement was too bold.

D80
 
How did the topic of "courtesy and professionalism" turn into a debate of what Vinman fed his snakes and if it's good or bad? Just wondering.:shrugs: I confuse easily some times. :laugh:
 
bekers71 said:
How did the topic of "courtesy and professionalism" turn into a debate of what Vinman fed his snakes and if it's good or bad? Just wondering.:shrugs: I confuse easily some times. :laugh:
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I take responability for this! Sorry, I was just using a specific thread started by Vinman to make the original point of ghosthousecorns which was
Is it too much to ask that when someone who clearly has been doing this for a long time, makes a post they get the bit of respect and courtesy they have earned?
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Drizzt80:You need to read the thread apparently.
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Apparently I'm not the only one.:idea:
 
Drizzt80 said:
The issue with the vinsters "feeding practice" was that it's not an effective replacement for the nutritional value found in feeding whole prey items.

D80
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If I wanted to read up on vinsters "feeding practices" not being an effective replacement for the nutritianal value found in feeding whole prey items where would I find that? If I had the knowledge your working from to form my opinions maybe I could have the same opinion as you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin M
If I wanted to read up on the suffer health of corn snakes that had their mouse diet switched to a meat, organ and bone diet where could I find that?
Your answer to my question was?
You need to read the thread apparently. The vinster wasn't feding organs and bones, just meat, plain white chicken meat. I don't think my statement was too bold
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.

I think it's bold if it's a fact.

The vinster wasn't feding organs and bones, just meat, plain white chicken meat.
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If I wanted to find vinster's "plain white chicken meat" feeding schedule, where could I find that in this thread?http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18393&highlight=pork
 
wade said:
The problem with people who think they know everything is that they are really annoying to those of us who do.
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"When I was 16, I thought I knew everything. Sadly, I forgot one thing....that I was right!"

LOL. I love that quote!


diamondlil said:
I've got no plans to feed my corns on anything but mice, personally.
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While I understand that, adding an occasional rat pup to the diet of an senescent cornsnake - or even a female that puts an excessive amount of reserves into egg laying - can be very beneficial. Plus, I'm still playing around with the "thawed chick" diet for a couple of my breeder females because, well, because I COULD. Whole thawed chickens with small mice fed ONLY when necessary (first meals out of brumation and following egg deposition). Surprisingly, I've been very pleased with some of the things I've seen. Very surprised....and very pleased.

KJ
 
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Austin M said:
If I wanted to find vinster's "plain white chicken meat" feeding schedule, where could I find that in this thread?http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18393&highlight=pork
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Yep, that would be the thread. I was wrong, it wasn't plain white chicken meat. I stand corrected and apologize. It was plain white chicken meat, plain white turkey meat, and the other white meat, plain pork. Yes, he did mention feeding a gizzard or two, and a neck or heart to his larger snakes, but I still find it very difficult to swallow that his revolutionary feeding plan replaces the whole body mouse or rat meals we currently feed.

Of course (as usual) I'm supposed to be the one that needs to find the scientific documentation to refute the vinsters claims . . . haven't seen or heard that one before!! :D


bekers71 said:
How did the topic of "courtesy and professionalism" turn into a debate of what Vinman fed his snakes and if it's good or bad? Just wondering.:shrugs: I confuse easily some times. :laugh:
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Oh please Becky!! You act as though you've never been around here before!! It's status quo for threads to go off topic. I'm amazed this one has only taken one detour so far!! ;)

D80
 
Drizzt80 said:
Yep, that would be the thread. I was wrong, it wasn't plain white chicken meat. I stand corrected and apologize. It was plain white chicken meat, plain white turkey meat, and the other white meat, plain pork. Yes, he did mention feeding a gizzard or two, and a neck or heart to his larger snakes, but I still find it very difficult to swallow that his revolutionary feeding plan replaces the whole body mouse or rat meals we currently feed.

Of course (as usual) I'm supposed to be the one that needs to find the scientific documentation to refute the vinsters claims . . . haven't seen or heard that one before!! :D


Oh please Becky!! You act as though you've never been around here before!! It's status quo for threads to go off topic. I'm amazed this one has only taken one detour so far!! ;)

D80
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Drizzt80 again.
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Brent, you are wickedly cracking me up (as usual). I will get back to repping this post later.
 
carol said:
Yep. Did you know that I lost my second corn to egg binding when she was just 18 months old?
The pet store told me I could keep them together, after all, they kept all their breeders together, not just by pairs either, they had about seven adult snakes of mixed sex all together. They also told me that the male would not be fertile unless he was brumated, so even when I witnessed mating behavior I didn't separate them because I was told he was shooting blanks.
At the time there was not a lot of info to find on keeping cornsnakes so I followed the advice of the pet store. ......
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Not going to quote the entire post but Carol, this is a great story and something you should cut and paste or post more often.

For most of us experienced keepers, we all have done Stupid things and lost animals. this is how we learned when there was no real information out there.


wade said:
The problem with people who think they know everything is that they are really annoying to those of us who do.
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Here I agree with Wade. There is a certain 15 year old who thinks he has more experience with snakes here than all us old timers. Only been into snakes for less than a year and already planning on getting a Yellow Anaconda. Says they are like keeping a boa. *sigh*
 
There is just so much information out there, good and bad. We shouldn't jump on a person for being misinformed. I see a lot of new keepers that lucked out by finding this site first, but are brutal to those that weren't so lucky. How many people would really think there are forums dedicated to this? Ask 20 strangers...
The best we can do is state our opinions on the best way to keep snakes and give supporting evidence. If they listen, they listen, if they don't, they don't.
 
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