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...sigh! Fat Boy? or Gravid Gal?

bekers71 said:
My goodness..you guys have/are going through a rough time. I hope things turn out well with these two females for you. Keeping my fingers crossed for these 2 and I am so sorry for your loss. :(

The male would have nothing to do with it. A couple factors that do guide females towards prolapse is too small/young to be bred and an out of shape females. People always say go by the rule of '3', 3 yrs old, 3 foot long and 300 grams. What tends to be left out is just because a female is 500 grams doesn't mean she's fit to breed. If they don't have good/great muscle tone, they are more prone to prolapse. This is also a big cause of egg binding. I'm sure in some cases maybe stress of cohabbing gravid females might cause prolapse and egg binding too. I'm not saying any of this is the your case, just this is the general causes of these problems.
Click to expand...

Well Darnit! Would have LIKED to been able to blame the male... LOL (kinda lol) And although everything you said there is logical hun... check it out...
Can't be the age thing ... Youngest gal was Whytsnake at around 5 and a half yrs old and WE ALL KNOW SHE WAS BIG ENOUGH~! :)
And the Striper is an '03 so that is for sure old enough, and the Male and "Lil Momma" are said to be 04's... Also, we got these three orange ones, this last Jan. 2009, from a full time breeder who kept them in the "little breeder box" sized thingy's and once they got here, they all got 25, 45 and 60 gal tanks... So they prolly excersized for the first time in their lives....From waking up in Jan to breeding in March...
And all the gals except for poor Whyt, (who we tried to breed to the gals for awhile back in Feb) have not co-habbed with anyone since copulating with the male... Like I said.... sigh! Maybe this just isn't meant for me to do.....

Keep your fingers crossed for our Lil Momma will ya? Oh and out of the so far 8 eggs Katchy laid... maybe 3 look pretty good now... But again, Ya never know... HUGS AND LUVS TO YA'ALL~!
Mary Ann
 
QUESTION:
Lil Momma, who did her pre-lay shed today, thinks she's starving!! Seriously! When I went to set her re-filled water dish in the Viv, she "BAM" snagged my finger! LOL Now neither of the other gals had ANY INTEREST in eating for a MONTH leading up to laying... And I know if you over feed you can get binding problems... We haven't given Momma anything bigger than a couple fuzzies, a couple of times over the last month... So...

FIRST QUESTION IS:
WHY ARE ALL OUR SNAKES FREAKS?

And SECOND QUESTION IS:
Should I with-hold food from Lil Momma? Or indulge her with a fuzzy? (They are tiny little fuzzies by the way)
 
I'd offer a fuzzy. All of my females are fed up until they refuse to eat when gravid and have never had any problems. Just feed smaller meals. She'll let you know when she doesn't want it.
 
Thankx Bekers! Man! If appitite is any clue to "Breeding Capability" LOL Lil Momma must be the "QUEEN!" lol Shheesh! I sure HOPE that's a good sign... Neither of the others would have ANYTHING to do with food... and we know how that turned out... So, I am going to hope that hunger... means a GREAT AND HEALTHY CLUTCH AND MOMMA SNAKE!

.......................admittedly, I do not know how many more times I can "HOPE" just to get all hope dashed~!!! But the Irish in me says... "WE ARE DUN WIT DEATS!~" You know, they come in threes? First was my Princess, then our Whytsnake, and now our Pretty Striper, Katchyana! THAT IS THREE! WE ARE DONE WITH DEATH!!! sigh!
I hope!
 
I've been told in the past that "big-boned" girls can have more trouble with egg binding simply because of their bulk and often lack of muscle tone. Snakes aren't so different from people... the overweight ones tend to be rather lethargic and, as a result, health issues often arise. Just giving snakes a larger viv doesn't automatically mean they'll be more active and shed the excess bulk (just like giving a fat man a treadmill won't guarantee that he'll start jogging). If you get get them out occasionally for a swim in the tub, it does help with muscle tone over time. Also, if you're feeding f/t or f/k feeders, I wouldn't just drop it in front of the snake. I'd get the snake to coil and hold its prey, perhaps simulate the rodent struggling to free itself, so that the snake has to use its muscles. That will help keep muscle tone in check as well. Hope it helps.
 
UPDATE:
We had to put Katchy to sleep yesterday... Out of the 8 eggs she DID lay, before she too prolapsed... There are 2 that look promising.
And we have tossed all but 4 of Whytsnakes 19 eggs now... Mold & smelly... But out of the 4 left... We may have a tad bit of hope for at least one! But who knows, since I figure we have ran through ANY and ALL the "negative" BAD crap that usually takes at LEAST a year to go through all in one month... I would have to say, we are OVER DUE for some "POSITIVE" good crap, to happen here!!! So just possibly, there will be more "fertile eggs" than we think!
And now... on to our last female........."Lil'Momma". She has her pre-lay shed on Apr 27th I believe... well, amyways... After "RE VISITING the "Jello Butt" thread and pictures... I am convinced we should be "IN EGGS" with in the next 24 to 48 hours... AND I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT SHE WILL HAVE ANYTHING BUT PERFECT EGGS, AND WILL REMAIN PERFECTLY NORMAL DURING & AFTER LAYING!

I mean come on now.. Lets be serious... You all have taught me that a snake dying from being "Egg Bound" is extremely rare... only thing more rare than that... supposedly, is a healthy, snake prolapsing, ESPECIALLY on their 3rd or 4th breeding! And to have TWO or my THREE females do it in the same year... Well according to ya'all and everything I could find on the matter... The odds are ASTRONOMICAL!
HAVING SAID THAT.......................

I will return as soon as Lil Momma lays, what are bound to be, the most BEAUTIFUL-NORMAL-HEALTHY eggs EVER!! JUST LIKE A NORMAL HEALTHY SNAKE DOES.. EVERY FLIPPING SEASON!............................... (....right?) sheepish grin! I really am trying to be positive here guys! PLEASE PLEASE if EVER, The third try was a charm... THIS HAS JUST GOT TO BE IT!!!!!

HUGS ALL... I will tune in tomorrow and try to catch up on all the gorgeous babies I just KNOW ya all are posting here!!! I Can Hardly Wait!

Mary Ann & Sean
PS: 6 days and counting till my little pup comes home!! Woo Hooo.. yepperz! The month of May is going to be MUUUUUUCH BETTER!! hehehehe
 
Wow, this has been an interesting thread! I'm so sorry that you've suffered so much loss. But hey, at least the snakes that passed left you some babies! You're very strong for handling this all so well, I know I would have just DIED. *hugs*
 
VickyChaiTea said:
Wow, this has been an interesting thread! I'm so sorry that you've suffered so much loss. But hey, at least the snakes that passed left you some babies! You're very strong for handling this all so well, I know I would have just DIED. *hugs*
Click to expand...


Thankx Vicky, but to be honest... I really haven't handled it all that well... I take my own sweet time mourning each time... Then I "FORCE" myself, seriously.. FORCE MYSELF, to think something positive! This site has been like my "Gaurdian Angel" along with best shoulder and best friend that I can share all this with! I think I would have REALLY lost it if I didn't have all the wonderful people here that "understand" and are always so helpful! Even now, when EVERYONE is in the "EGGING" & "PIPPING" mode, with snakes of their own... I can always count on someone popping in to give me advise, consolement or just words of encouragement.

Now.... perfect example...

Thankx to that "Jello Butt" thread, and going through "laying" with my two, now passed on snakes, I called it absolutly right! An hour ago, Lil Momma started laying eggs!!!! Because she is SO not acclimated to humans in any way... I have had a towel over her Viv on the laying box side so she has complete privacy. Plus, that way, I can peak in the back to check on her progress and she doesn't notice me much, if at all. I do not plan on getting any closer looks for quite a few hours... I am not taking ANY chances on stressing her in any way!!!! THESE EGGS, AND THIS ONE LAST FEMALE, MUST SURVIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or Vicky Darlin'? I WILL DEFINETLY LOOSE IT COMPLETELY!!! (attempting a smile here!)

So... wish my Lil Momma, her eggs, and OF COURSE ME luck would ya? THANKX & HUGGERZ!
Mary Ann
 
I'm crossing my fingers for you and Lil Momma!!
I think it's good to give her as much privacy as possible, it will help her!
 
I'm sorry you loss both girls, I don't even want to think what would happen if I loss my Peachy so I know how upset you must be. I'm hoping the best for their eggs and that Lil Momma will lay all her eggs problem free.
 
Good Luck! And I highly recommend you don't peek on her any more for at least 8 hours. I strongly believe that peeking too much can also contribute to egg binding. (Learned the hard way years ago :( )
 
Ouch, you've really had a bad run of things this year (hugs) Very sorry for your losses, and you've done magnificent at staying strong- I know I wouldn't have been able to handle all that at once.
I bet Lil Momma will lay a big, beautiful clutch for you-- something good's GOTTA happen after all that trouble, right? Good luck to the both of you and congrats on the puppy, she's a cutie.
Keep us updated on your girlie :)
 
WAY TO GO!! don't worry lil momma will be just fine. Hope ya find a big pile a fertile eggs in that box!!! I'll be waiting to hear the outcome! :cheers:
 
........sigh. Well All, Here is an update for those who have been wondering...

Little Momma DID lay a BIG PERFECT LOOKING pile of eggs... Ya know, like all the pics I have seen people post here...NORMAL looking!! It "looks" like about 13 to 15, (thats the count we took QUICKLY of the "PILE" as we moved it "JUST AS IT WAS" into the incubator.
And here it is a few weeks later and GUESS WHAT? LIL' MOMMA is ... believe it or not..

STILL ALIVE & THRIVING!!!!!!! WOOOO "F'n" HOOOO!!!!! (at this point, THAT in itself is a mile stone is this house!)

BUT........... (yep, ya had to know if you have read all of this thread, that there HAD to be a But comingup........ sigh!)

The eggs, (most of the ones we can see), just YESTERDAY began turning that "golden" jelly looking color & texture & even the ones that up to now only had "minimal" denting, now seem to be deflating at an alarming rate... not good, right?

....................and of course, (or at this point maybe I should say: "Of Curse") We just got hit with another devasting blow yesterday afternoon, when we discovered that BOTH of our 2008 babies, "Smokee & Da' Bandit".... had ESCAPED sometime over the the previous 8 to 10 hours... NO, the lid was not left loose, EVEN the flat rocks we use for "added" qaurentee of the lid staying on were ALL there!!!!
Any way... being as they were the "FIRST TWO" we ordered back in DEC when I got that GREAT idea to get Whytsnake a mate.... And wound up with 6 snakes..
...well, ya'all know the rest of the story , suffice it to say I have spent the better part last night & this morning deep in the revelation that ...
"OK! OK! OK! enough all ready! I GET IT! For what ever reason, I AM NOT SUPPOSE TO NOR MEANT TO "HOBBY" RAISE SNAKES FOR PLEASURE!! I have HEARD what ever forces are speaking & I GET IT! OK???? ENOUGH LOSS!!!!!!!!"

I am thing now that no matter the out come of that last remaning pile of eggs... I should PROBABLY be looking to find a new home for the one "proven" breeding pair of 04 Upper Keys still in our possesion, VERY soon... before what ever this is, winds up "Eliminating" or "Hurting" one of them... Along with "ANY" pippers that may hatch..........

and thats about it at this point............
And if I am sound like a defeatist.? Uhmmmmm...

DUUUHHH!!! Ya' Think?" (smiling sardonicaly at this moment)

Other than to say I LOVE YA ALL AND HAVE BEEN MISSING YA'ALL... I will let ya know how this "Heartbreaking Drama" plays out very soon.....

HUGGERZ!
Mary Ann
 
Whats your humidity with the eggs? Sounds like they need more.

Also wanted to say sorry about the escapees. Maybe they will show up soon.

Don't give up! Just look at this as you started off with the worse things that could happen. So it's got to be better next year. :)
 
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