Who houses their Corns together?

wow i guess more ppl house there corns toghther then thought

Here are some photos (as promised). I have five corns housed seperately in roomy enclosures. This setup uses only 4 square feet of floor space and I could fit more snakes in if I wanted to.

The 20L on the bottom houses my Miami. My male Okeetee and Crimson are in the divided 55g and my two hatchlings are in the 10's. I also included two closer shots of the divided tank, and since my female Okeetee hatchling was in a posing mood, there's a shot of her too.

I just wanted to illustrate that with a little imagination, you have have more than one snake, and keep them seperated, without devoting a huge amount of space to them. My little "Corn Corner" is probaly not even close to being as compact as what some other, larger scale hobbyists hae achieved.

Grrr- I hate this lack of an edit feature. That last paragraph should say "can have", not "have have" :dunce:

Also that first pic is too dark. Here is a better image...

Serpwidgets said:

This is a loaded question. You might want to ask about those who used to house corns together but do not anymore because of problems. But asking those who do it is a good way to filter out any negative responses.

It's like asking if being a stoner makes you a loser. Of course those who smoke pot on a regular basis aren't going to tell you what losers it makes them, even if they could see that. Nor will they tell you how it completely stops all intellectual and emotional growth, because they aren't capable of understanding that other people continued growing long after they stopped. They don't get that they are still 13-18 year old mentalities stuck in 30, 40, or 50 year old bodies, they thnk that's what everyone else is, too. So you're not going to get an honest answer of "look at what a pathetic loser and waste of human potential I am."

Anyway, I used to house corns together, when I first got into corns. I found that it caused problems I wasn't even aware of, until I separated them after 2 years. (Then one of them, who was much smaller and a picky feeder with a bad attitude, suddenly sprouted and is an entirely different snake.)

There is no guaranteed method of sexing snakes, and even the best in the world make mistakes, so just because you THINK you are housing two females together, unless they have already both laid eggs, you do not KNOW that they are females and you still risk premature breeding, eggbinding, etc.

There are also issues of stress, cannibalism, and many other issues. There are plenty of good reasons to not keep them together, and there is not one single good reason to keep them together. (IMO keeping more snakes than you can afford is NOT a good reason.)

Just some food for thought. :wavey:

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1. That presupposes everyone who houses snakes together will stop after the first problem.

2. Losers are losers, whether they smoke pot or not. Smoking pot just makes it easier for some people to be losers. Unfortunately, some people on the lower half of the bell curve never progress mentally beyond 14 or 15, whether they are teetotallers or skid row drug addicts. I am not going to be the one waving the pot flag, but I would point out Carl Sagan was a chronic pot smoker, and he is someone you should aspire to, as a scientist and thinker. The music world is full of people who smoke pot, including Paul McCartney (he's been in the news more than once.) Oliver Stone was in the news this week for a pot 'bust.' Surely you do not think all of the aforementioned are 'Losers.' At least a couple of CEOs in Silicon Valley are infamous hasish smokers (Jobs and Ellison.) I say all of this only to point out that I think it is difficult for you to establish a causal relationship in this case. In life, there are plenty of losers. Some smoke pot, some don't. Among pot smokers, there are all types. Perhaps I should have interpreted your statement of 'Stoners' to mean those that are overtly Losers (by definition.) Still, hard to show a cause and effect relationship. Maybe the Losers would rather sit around and smoke pot than work or study? I don't think you'll find Steve Jobs or Oliver Stone cruising internet forums, which is another reason your sample would be skewed, if trying to find the elite among the pot smokers. Many would be afraid to answer simply because smoking pot is socially unacceptable to some and could even be a career-ender if it became too public (i.e. the only ones who would admit to smoking pot would be those with nothing to lose = "losers.") I don't think it's a very valid analogy, for all of those reasons. I don't doubt pot has been associated with motivational difficulties and also exacerbating pre-existing psychiatric conditions. There is a positive correlation, but it's far from a 100% correlation, and again there are questions about cause and effect. Lots of people become drunks and failures/losers (and mental cases), whichever came first. So you'd have to weed out the drunks from the stoners to avoid any crossover, in your study of losers.

3. What evidence do you have to show that the change in housing resulted in a change in feeding/growth? It sounds like you'd need two different population groups with a sample size of around 30 or more, to really establish anything. I'm not saying you aren't 100% correct in your assessment of the two snakes, only that as a scientific thinker you have to follow scientific principles if you want to be regarded as having proved or demonstrated something. I can flip a coin. Just because it comes up heads one time doesn't mean a whole lot. For all you know, the snake might have hit a different phase of growth.

4. It's easy to convince yourself that dogs should be separated because there COULD be a fight between the dogs. I know one lady who keeps all her dogs in kennels, and she'll only bring one out at a time. She's convinced herself that she's absolutely right, and she will take NO chances. I, on the other hand, have had to break up a few spats, but my dogs live together in the house and the end result is that it's a lot easier and more enjoyable for me and the dogs, 99.9% of the time. That's not a good enough reason for the lady with lock-down kennels for every dog, but it is for me. I point this out only to show that you could be on a slippery slope, as far as where to draw the line. You could make an argument that never handling the snakes is safer than handling them, or go even further. If you don't want to ever keep two snakes together, then GOOD FOR YOU. However, I don't think it necessarily applies to everyone else and his/her goals, especially when many of the big name herpers/breeders keep snakes together frequently, for their own reasons. I personally don't 'not drive' because there is a small chance of me getting killed behind the wheel. It doesn't sound like there are many bona fide examples of cannibalism with adult Corns. If there are, I'm all ears.

(more food for thought... sorry for being such a rigid scientifc thinker... it's in my blood/genes I guess...)

Cheers!

I am saying thankyou for putting serpwidget right,all i did was ask a lot of questions into keeping corns,and then i get berated for asking them!From what i can gather it is probably best to keep one solely,and as for space,I don't have much of that at all,or i would be keeping my dragon AND getting a corn!I will be picking it up later,am still looking forward to it,am very skeptical about keeping two now,for cannibalistic reasons..Did I ask for a mental evaluation by the way?And also,while I'm on the subject,Where does "stoners" come into all this?

This is what I was told..

Thanks for that.This is what i was told i am not misquoting anyone.Do YOU have any ideas as to what the colour morph might be?The amelanistic cross albino I am told has a background colour of white/pink,with orange saddles.I have seen pics of various morphs on sites and there are so many i can't tell till i see it.I am guessing one of the parents was a snow corn..

viktoria333 said:

Thanks for that.This is what i was told i am not misquoting anyone.Do YOU have any ideas as to what the colour morph might be?The amelanistic cross albino I am told has a background colour of white/pink,with orange saddles.I have seen pics of various morphs on sites and there are so many i can't tell till i see it.I am guessing one of the parents was a snow corn..

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Sounds like a amel. (and albino thats missing black)

What morph?

The chap i'm getting them/it from says the amel is yellow with orange saddles and the cross is white with orange saddles.Am intrigued!Will find out in a couple of hours!Would anyone suggest what is the BEST type of substrate for hatchlings.I have got some beech chips,but have heard that kitchen rool is good too..How long should i leave the baby to settle in also?Am pretty confident i have everything here for my baby,is there any must haves other than the obvious{food,hides,warmth and water}?

Aspen is the substrate of choice on here.

Beech chips and paper towel are also both fine.

Best leaving it/them 3-5 days to settle in before attempting to handle or feed. Sounds like you have everything it'll/they'll need.

Post up some pictures once you get it/them and I'm sure everyone will fill you in on what morph(s) you've ended up with.

(PS. it sounds like you still haven't decided on whether to get one or both. Unless you have two enclosures, I'd still recommend just the one)

Cross....

It almost sounds like a creamsicle, when you say cross that has orange and yellow or white. And a creamsicle is a cross between a cornsnake and a great plains ratsnake (which is sometimes called a western corn).

I wouldn't be upset about the responses to housing snakes together. It is always good to get opinions on options. Don't take it personally, no one is attacking you for considering it.

sue

For a number of years I kept several groups communally, with little regard to size or gender. This was a few years before ultra-informative net sites like this one were available, so I wasn't aware of the risks. When Michael McEachern's book (the "corn bible" of its time) came out, it said this arrangement was ok, with caveats regarding male combat, separate feeding, and new-acquisition quarantine. I fed separately, but witnessed numerous male combats (the combatants were never any worse for wear as far as I could determine), and experienced a couple of other unforseen problems:

1. My young, slow-growing, fussy-eating, underweight, timid Miami female was impregnated, and threw a clutch of bad eggs. Obviously, she was in worse shape after laying. I never brumated, so I had ignorantly ignored the possibility. She survived, but it was tough bringing her back to health (skinny health, that is).

2. The snakes used to frequently engage in a kind of "jerky" dance when they would come in contact with each other. It was most pronounced following feedings, but was not exclusive to these times. It wasn't a serious issue, but I couldn't pretend that this dance was a good thing. It looked like a nervous response. I never see this behavior now that all my snakes are housed separately.

I'm happy to add that I've never seen any cannibalism, even when the hatchlings were congregated in their incubation tubs. But I'm really not interested in seeing it first-hand, so now I'll do whatever I can to prevent it.

larryg said:

yadda

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Larry, I offered my opinion. I didn't say anything in my post was scientific. I do not need data, statistics, or facts to have an opinion that chocolate ice cream is gross, nor do I to have an opinion about cohabitation, or about stoners. Quoting data, statistics, or facts does not make my opinion stop being my opinion.

I realize you've now got a massive chip on your shoulder and are out to prove to everyone on the forum how smart you are. But I really don't care, and I will not be a part of your newfound crusade.

I am saying thankyou for putting serpwidget right,all i did was ask a lot of questions into keeping corns,and then i get berated for asking them!

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Nobody berated you for asking questions. :sobstory: "all i did was" point out that the question you asked might not get you all the information you wanted to make an informed decision.

I have never had any problems housing my snakes together. I just feed them separately and outside the tank. I have a container where all my snakes are fed. They know when i put them in it they know its feeding time. I also only house same size snakes together. IMHO they seem to enjoy each other because they are always curled up together. thats just how i do it but to each his or own. :cheers:

Housing corns together?

This was how i was gonna do it.I did get two,both amelanistic,but i still can't say what morph they are!Dark pinkY[almost rose coloured]on a very light pink background.If i can find i picture on the web i can download it.At the moment both are separate but i may change this set up,maybe have supervised playtimes when they are more settled.Both have eaten,didn't regurgitate yet,and have been out and about in thier enclosures.They seem happy enough!

viktoria333 said:

At the moment both are separate but i may change this set up,maybe have supervised playtimes when they are more settled.

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They're not puppies. They are solitary animals. Playtimes are not needed, and they probably are not desired by the snakes.

Nobody here is going to know what snakes think or feel,

I think any animal can get used to any set up,

Just need to adapt.

There is no right or wrong answer, just seems to be in the favour of housing seperately. I house my snakes together without problem even if the risk oof problems is increased.

I'm laughing so hard I'm crying!

I CAN'T BELIEVE SOMEONE ACTUALLY PUT "OLIVER STONE" AND "ELITE" IN THE SAME SENTENCE! :roflmao: :laugh01: :roflmao:

For he record Larry....

Watching Star Trek reruns and living in your parents basement does not qualify you as a "scientific thinker".

Back to the topic at hand....

Larryg said:

It doesn't sound like there are many bona fide examples of cannibalism with adult Corns. If there are, I'm all ears.

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This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone at this point, but your wrong again Larry. I've personally seen adult corns attack and constrict other adults. Does it happen every day? No, but it happens frequently enough that I'm not willing to risk losing a valuable breeder animal just to test the odds.

Your inexperience with this hobby is glaringly obvious. If you want to subject your animals to the reckless and dangerous husbandry practices that you advocate, it is certainly your right. (It sucks for your animals, but we don't get to pick our caretakers in life.) However, if you continue on your current quest of pumping out incorrect and reckless advice on this forum, I will make it my sole mission to call you out, embarrass you, and ensure that unsuspecting newcomers are fully aware that you are no more experienced than they so that your "opinions" are given an appropriate level of consideration.

The choice is yours. :wavey:

CAV said:

I CAN'T BELIEVE SOMEONE ACTUALLY PUT "OLIVER STONE" AND "ELITE" IN THE SAME SENTENCE! :roflmao: :laugh01: :roflmao:

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Now that's funny right thar, I don't care who you are :grin01:

CAV said:

Watching Star Trek reruns and living in your parents basement does not qualify you as a "scientific thinker".

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I read somewhere that tribbles have twice the nutrient content of rats (but you have to shave them down).

I read somewhere that tribbles have twice the nutrient content of rats (but you have to shave them down).
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

:-offtopic I simply have to read all the threads - its better than anything on TV these days!