"Blued Steel" Pippies!

I think there's a world of difference between labeling something after it has been proven versus labeling something without having any kind of explanation as to what it is. For years now there hasn't been anything in the way of breeding trials, just people selling "blue motleys." That doesn't prove they exist.

It's hard to accept a new morph as proven when the only evidence consists of reports that go something like, "I heard that this one guy crossed like this one snake to this other snake one time, and I think he said he got like one of those hatchlings or something, but I'm not really sure."

If someone told you they had Green Ghosts, would you accept them as just that without any further information? If you asked them "what did you cross to make those" and they said "well, the parents are Green Ghosts from an unknown source," would that convince you?

It's all about predictability. If nobody knows whether or not something can be reproduced, or how it can be reproduced, there will be a lot of skeptical reactions. The same was true for Lava. Nobody wanted to accept it as new, even when Joe Pierce had reported the fact that he had outcrossed/recovered it just like a Mendelian recessive trait, and he had also crossed it to hypo and sunkissed to produce normals and prove it non-allelic.

With ultramel, there were something like 25 different crosses by August of 2004. Many still didn't believe it.

All in all, I think there is a very healthy skepticism in corn morphs. It causes a situation where something claimed as "new" actually has to be proven as new. I don't think that's a bad thing.

The sheet has been updated to include Hurley's additional data. It would be ideal if we can get the same info for all of the crosses listed.

It also seems that in all these Blues, Motley is always in play. With the exception of the seemingly dilute Lav Joe posted, have any non-motley Blues been produced?

Rob just directed me to this thread. I'm pleased someone is digging into this.

The first time I heard about blue motlies, I asked if they were pastel motlies (aka ghost motlies). I never got a straight answer. Well, I did, but it didn't satisfy me. They merely said they were NOT pastel motlies. I've been a skeptic ever since. Having some now, I definitely conclude that they are phenotypically different from any pastel motlies I've seen so what's going on here in this thread now will tie the knot. . . .eventually.

Serp, thank you for taking this opportunity to point out that we're naming snakes before we even see them at maturity. Not too many serpent species are so metamorphic, and with most of our morph tags being color related, we should be careful not to rush into naming based on the appearance of a hatchling. Rich will tell you how dangerous that is. He named the 'mocha' corn when it was a neonate before seeing the varieties of looks within the morph and their mature colorations. That name subsequently was changed to 'lavender' since lavender more precisely describes the look of the morph. I know everyone is rushing to be the one that discovers or the first to name a "new" corn, but I hope we'll all take a deep breath and not jump to name a corn based on it's hatchling appearance. Wait 'till it's mature and you see the final appearance. Ideally, after breeding trials. Of course, the blues don't change that much from hatch to adult.

Rob and I both bred F1s from hypo lavender X blue motley this year. Mine (purchased from Walter Smith) will be late this year, but I'll report stats as soon as I have open eggs. I don't have a detailed lineage on the blue so don't know what's going on there, regarding hypo A.

BTW, could those stats include gender inventory. Just curious. Also, Sean Bradley has probably been breeding these longer than anyone. Hopefully, he'll be able to join this thread with some statistics.

Stats on the blues on the clutches at least:

2005 clutch - 1 dilute anery motley male

2006 clutch 1 - 2 dilute anery motley females

2006 clutch 2 - 1 male, 1 female dilute motley

This last pair of dilutes are identical in coloration right now. The male isn't even lighter like many males are. They are only 5 feedings in, though, so I'm sure that will change.

I'll try to get some updated pics of the 2 girls from clutch 1 going to Susan and the pair I still have from the second clutch.

This pair has always thrown female heavy clutches, just like their grandmother.

Sex ratios:


2005 Clutch

1 male dilute anery motley
mostly females on the rest, I'll look up the exact numbers
(Parents of these three clutches on upper left and center.)




2006 Clutch 1

2 snow motley females
2 dilute anery mots
1.3 anery mots




2006 Clutch 2

2 snow motley females
1.1 dilute anery mots
1.4 anery mots

Do I have to tell any of you what this is?? Way to go Rob!

breathless. imagin adding diffusion, a solid blue snake? wow

Originally Posted by D&LCornSnakes

breathless. imagin adding diffusion, a solid blue snake? wow

Blue Bloods does have a nice ring to it! All it will take to make one, is to create a Dilute Granite. It is going to be very interesting to see what a Dilute Charcoal looks like.

This photo was taken from Robs second clutch that is hatching from Anery Motleys het Dilute Striped.

Sorry! I hadn't realized this thread has progressed so far! Here is the info from my clutches that is lacking:

4/28/05 WWE's Fairy ACR #470 X WWE's Figaro ACR #490 ( both are anery motley het stripe, hypo & snow and are full siblings)
2.0 anery motley
1.0 snow stripe (pulled umbilicus, euthanized)
1.0 ghost stripe
1.2 ghost motley
0.1 blue motley (sporadic eater, eventually died at about 10 months)
0.1 blue(?) stripe (ate only once, eventually euthanized)
0.0.1 snow motley dead in shell

5/7/05 WWE's Spectra ACR #496 (ghost het motley) X WWE's Figaro
1.0 anery
2.0 anery motley
3.3 ghost
1.1 ghost motley
1.0 blue motley (never ate, eventually died)

6/30/06 WWE's Spectra X WWE's Figaro
1.2 anery
0.3 anery motley
3.1 blue motley
(very surprised that not a single ghost hatched out)

6/20/06 WWE's Fiesta ACR #492 X WWE's Fury ACR #494 (both are anery motley het stripe and hypo and are both full siblings to Fairy and Figaro)
1.1 anery striped
1.0 ghost stripe
6.3 anery motley
1.1 ghost motley

I have looked at all my past pairings of related snakes in my collection and, so far, still only Spectra, Fairy and Figaro have produced blues. Some pairings have been basically crossed off the list (Kathlyn X Figaro = no dilute, Styx X Figaro = no dilute, Spirit X Boo = no blue, Fantasia X Boo = no blue, Fantasia X Casper = no blue) I have to test Spirit with Figaro, Fiesta with Figaro, Fury with Fairy and Boo with Fairy (unless I get adult blues to test them with). Fantasia has recently died, but I'll be keeping all of her '06 babies for future possible testing, plus Ariel is a Fantasia daughter by Casper so will need to be tested. And I also will need to test my blues with those I'm getting from Connie, and I'm also looking at purchasing an adult male that sure looks blue in the one pic I've seen of him. And I suppose I'll need to purchase at least a pair from Bayou Reptiles as well (sigh).

Here's a pic of that questionable blue stripe. I only have a couple of pics of her, but this one best shows her color as to what I saw in person. I wasn't sure if it was she was really blue or her color was the result her the stripe. But when compared to the anery stripes I hatched out this year...she looks more blue.