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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Help with Strawberry gene!
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:03 AM   #1
Snakehead
Help with Strawberry gene!

Does anybody have any good info on the strawberry morphs? Any info would be welcomed. I did some digging and there's not much on the subject. Is the Salmon the same gene? What is the story behind the origin of the Strawberries? I know it's considered a type of hypo but I don't know too much more than that.
 
Old 10-09-2010, 03:20 PM   #2
StrangeCargo
"Strawberry" Corns (and the Salmon Ghosts & Salmon Snows) originated from Jim Stelpflug of South West Wisconsion Reptiles http://swreptile.com/

I own Salmon Ghosts, Salmon snows and in the past (~2002 I believe) have bought Strawberry corns from Jim Stelpflug. Although many speculate that the Strawberry Gene IS the cause for the Pinkish/salmon color of the Salmon Ghosts/Snows, I just haven't seen the evidence yet. It SHOULD be the reason- Jim introduced the Strawberry hypos along with teh Salmon Ghosts & snows (the chances of it being two different genes id VERY slim).

KJ Lodrigue ( www.kjunsnakehaven.com ) spent a few years working with a group of Strawberry Corns/morphs that belonged to a close friend of ours (don't know if he wants his name mentioned). He ended up producing pure strawberries, albino strawberries, anery strawberries and maybe a few more... His anery strawberries (I held them in my hand) didn't show the pinks of the Salmon Ghosts I own.

This is all just speculation on my end... Everything for me points it SHOULD be the gene responsible BUT I just haven't seen the proof yet.

To further complicate matters, I hear that IF you breed a Coral Ghost to an unrelated regular Ghost, PART of the clutch from the pairing will show pinks... Even Jeff Gailwood (JMG Reptiles) said that with EACH GENERATION of his Coral Ghosts (orig from Jim Stelflug) gets pinker and pinker when bred together. This is showing that the "coral" color of the Coral Ghosts isn't a simple recessive gene (Strawberry Hypo is an accepted hypo gene considered to be I guess a regular simple recessive-- if it wasn't, it'd just be a selectevely bred color morph).... There is defiently something going on and I believe in the next few years- as more and more of us work with these animals- it'll begin to be unraveled.

Sorry to muddy the situation mroe for you.... Heck, I could be completely wrong- just sharing my views and what I've seen for myself so far...

Graham...

PS, I'm a horrible photographer (and the photos don't capture the real pinks) but here's some of my Coral Ghosts
 
Old 10-09-2010, 03:42 PM   #3
Snakehead
Thank You for your input! I appreciate any info or opinions on the matter. Your right eventually things will be sorted out and we will make some sense of it. I forgot about the Coral ghosts. Do you think these are genetically similar also? I also remember some pink ghosts produced by the Loves which were a special project also called "Specter" Corns.
 
Old 10-09-2010, 03:59 PM   #4
StrangeCargo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakehead View Post
Thank You for your input! I appreciate any info or opinions on the matter. Your right eventually things will be sorted out and we will make some sense of it. I forgot about the Coral ghosts. Do you think these are genetically similar also? I also remember some pink ghosts produced by the Loves which were a special project also called "Specter" Corns.
Coral Ghosts originated from the same guy who started the Strawberry Corns... There's never been another line of Ghosts that even come close to the pink/salmon color of these (in the past there's been stuff like pastel ghosts that had alittle more pastel colors than regular ghosts BUT nothing like these). Read into it however you want...

The only reason I bring them up is because many people say/believe that the strawberry gene is responsible for the pinks in this bloodline....
 
Old 10-09-2010, 04:03 PM   #5
StrangeCargo
The below info is pulled DIRECTLY from KJUN Snakehaven's website's cornsnake page concerning the Strawberry Corns. KJ is a very close friend and extremely knowledgeable in genetics and I fully stand behind what he says:
----------------------------------------------------------
Strawberry cornsnakes (which are very different from some pink snows that are sometimes called "Strawberry Snows" in Europe) are still somewhat of a mystery. There is no doubt that the line we have is some form of hypomelanism, is inheritable (almost definitely as a recessive mutation), and looks uniquely different from all of the other lines of hypomelanism currently available. That's where the "known facts" stop. It seems like this line has been shown unique by some breeders, but some others have found it to be allelic with various other lines of hypomelanism. New or not, the strawberry line definitely has some other lines of hypomelanism mixed into it somewhere resulting in some "false" results in various breeding trials. For example, we have conclusively proven that strawberry corns are not Lava or ultra. If not new, strawberry is just a very unique form of hypomelanism. We have confirmed that some strawberries are hypomelanistic Type A snakes, but some others produce only normals when bred to standard hypomelanistic cornsnakes. Even when breeding two strawberries together, some normals are produced; however, this line doesn't seem to behave like a dominant trait, either. Currently, the dominant/codominant hypothesis is being tested here in greater detail.
We truly believe that strawberry is a new gene (not allelic with any other forms of hypomelanism), but confusion has arisen since hypomelanism is mixed into the founding colony (i.e., Jim Stepflug) of strawberries. This means that some strawberries (but not all of them) are carrying the hypo gene while some hypos have inadvertently been misrepresented as strawberries. After two years of working intensively with a rather large group of strawberry cornsnakes, we have finally reached a point where we were able to produce - and isolate - what we believe is the strawberry gene. Unlike some people, we started with a large colony of strawberries - not just one or two to toy around with. Over the next 2 years, we expect to use these supposed strawberries (produced here) to finally give conclusive evidence: is strawberry allelic to hypomelanism type A or is it a new gene all together? If a new gene all together, is it definitely a simple recessive trait?

Strawberry corns - regardless of the actual mode of inheritance - are unique looking cornsnakes with clean to whitish backgrounds and deep red blotches. Especially as subadults, they tend towards having a strawberry-red and strawberry-orange overall color scheme. Even if this morph does turn out to be a new look to an old mutation, the look is so distinctive that it certainly deserves its own name, description, and personal spotlight!
 
Old 10-09-2010, 04:15 PM   #6
StrangeCargo
John F (Zorro here on cs.com) has some ideas on the strawberry animals also... here's a link to his webpage's photogallery where there is a picture of an animal labeled "Strawberry Ghost". John has some great animals- I'm sure he'll share his views also....

http://coloradocorns.com/gallery?nggpage=2

----------------------------------------------------------------

There's alot going on here with PINK CORNS...seems like multiple genes in multiple bloodlines- although these messages might not be directly related to your orig topic, you did ask about "Strawberry Morphs"... again- many feel strawberry is involved in some way or another....


To further complicate things, consider my statements from JMG Reptiles that EACH generation the Coral Ghosts get pinker and pinker..... Then consider this statement from KJ's (wwwkjunsnakehaven.com 's) write up posted above: "this line doesn't seem to behave like a dominant trait, either. Currently, the dominant/codominant hypothesis is being tested here in greater detail. " ... and my final point to let you ponder...ASK ABOUT THE "RED FACTOR" gene (is it strawberry? Only time will tell)!

lol- have fun...hope I've helped out!
 
Old 10-09-2010, 04:46 PM   #7
Snakehead
Yeah thanks! I have been interested in these ever since I first saw a Salmon Ghost! They are stunning! I recently got a male Strawberry/Hypo motley but I don't have a female. I am more interested in the ghosts than the snows. Even though the snows can be very pretty, the ghosts are my favorites. It will be fun trying to make some sense of this all for sure. Thanks for your input I will chase down those links you posted also.
 
Old 10-09-2010, 07:43 PM   #8
Tara80
I completely agree Graham. Great post. There are so many different varieties of pink (i.e. salmon, neon, coral etc etc) that there is definitely something ELSE at work, in addition to strawberry. We are going to have to eventually differentiate between what IS strawberry (by definition) and what is some other gene(s) in action.
There are most certainly a few other 'factors' out there that this intense red is attributed to. I think that there may be a 'strawberry' gene that IS allelic to hypo and then there are other 'strawberry' colored genes that are not (such as one that people are currently calling the red masque gene).
I know that there are plenty of speculations out there right now but there are also quite a few people working on this too such as Soderberg, Poppycorns, Pritzel and such in a similar fashion.
I am lucky enough to have a couple of 'pink' snows in a breeding loan with Don that are a result of crossing the salmon with the neon. I am excited to see what the outcome will be when they are old enough to breed.
 
Old 10-09-2010, 07:57 PM   #9
StrangeCargo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tara80 View Post
I completely agree Graham. Great post. There are so many different varieties of pink (i.e. salmon, neon, coral etc etc) that there is definitely something ELSE at work, in addition to strawberry. We are going to have to eventually differentiate between what IS strawberry (by definition) and what is some other gene(s) in action.
There are most certainly a few other 'factors' out there that this intense red is attributed to. I think that there may be a 'strawberry' gene that IS allelic to hypo and then there are other 'strawberry' colored genes that are not (such as one that people are currently calling the red masque gene).
I know that there are plenty of speculations out there right now but there are also quite a few people working on this too such as Soderberg, Poppycorns, Pritzel and such in a similar fashion.
I am lucky enough to have a couple of 'pink' snows in a breeding loan with Don that are a result of crossing the salmon with the neon. I am excited to see what the outcome will be when they are old enough to breed.
Well said Tara.... alot of potential in these new 'factors'/genes/????? I've been breeding snakes and keeping herps for a long time...I've never seen animals this PINK before... the next few years will be exciting- people really have to see these animals in person to appreciate how bright they really are!
 
Old 10-10-2010, 02:16 PM   #10
multicorn
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangeCargo View Post
Well said Tara.... alot of potential in these new 'factors'/genes/????? I've been breeding snakes and keeping herps for a long time...I've never seen animals this PINK before... the next few years will be exciting- people really have to see these animals in person to appreciate how bright they really are!
I totally agree i have one of these PINK beauty's.... i think possibly a sister to one of yours...!!!! by the markings anyway.....
They are soooooo pink i am so excited about breeding mine to see what i can produce..
 

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