My Amel Cinder/Z proves himself fertile!

Woot! Woot! As many of you know, last year a heat spike ruined fertility for that season, including all of my Amel Cinder's pairings. So I tried him again this year and was very nervous. Today I feel a little bit better.... The Amel Stripe I bred him to is laying fertile eggs as we speak! I'm so excited! I included pics of the pair breeding for fun.
Here are some other pairings I've had good luck with so far....

Bloodred het Hypo Pewter X the same - 16 eggs layed 2/20/07

Miami Motley X Miami het Motley - 14 eggs layed 3/02/07

Zagged Cinder X Lava - 20 eggs layed 2/26/07

Miami het Hypo, Amel X Fully Striped Miami Motley - 11 eggs layed 2/11/07

Miami Motley X Hypo Miami - 14 eggs layed 2/25/07

Old School Bloodred X the same - 17 eggs layed 3/01/07

Aberrant Milksnake Phase X Milksnake Phase Motley - 12 eggs layed 2/20

:crazy02: :crazy02:

Excellent! Great pics too.
Congrats on the other projects as well, a few of them sparked an interest :eek1:

Absolutly awesome shots and a great pairing!

I didn't know amel cinders existed until recently. How many of these are there? Any hatchling pictures?

And what other recessives has cinder been worked into?

Tula_Montage said:

Absolutly awesome shots and a great pairing!

I didn't know amel cinders existed until recently. How many of these are there? Any hatchling pictures?

And what other recessives has cinder been worked into?

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The last I heard, he is the only one in existance. Hopefully that will change this season, but I'm tickled he's fertile.

There are various pics of him on this site as a hatchling and everything inbetween, it will take me some time to dig them up though... when he was a baby I was still calling them Anery C/Morph Z so it's very difficult to find his baby pics though a search.

I suspect a few of mine may also be homo for Hypo, but that and Amel are the only recessives possible in my collection so far. Looks like that will change in a couple of years. :crazy02:

Very cool. While I don't care for the regular Z, the Amel variation is absolutely wicked!

Sweet hook up there! Good luck with those eggs!!:cheers:

Great news! What a gorgeous couple. Congrats on the other successful pairings as well. :cheers:

Fantastic snakes, as always Carol

Thanks everyone! Got 19 more eggs from my Bubblegum Snows last night as well! I wonder what today's egg hunt will turn up...:grin01:

BTW.... that Amel Stripe gave me 20 perfect eggs and no slugs! :dancer:

OK, OK.
I'll admit, I haven't been paying THAT close attention, what with all the new hypos and multi-morphs, but I have missed one, I guess.
Cinder?
Please fill me in.
Thanks.
BTW - Awesome snake, but now corns are starting to look like other ratsnake morphs. I really especially love the contrasting colors in a lot of these breeding shots.
Great pics!

Shaky said:

OK, OK.
I'll admit, I haven't been paying THAT close attention, what with all the new hypos and multi-morphs, but I have missed one, I guess.
Cinder?
Please fill me in.
Thanks.
BTW - Awesome snake, but now corns are starting to look like other ratsnake morphs. I really especially love the contrasting colors in a lot of these breeding shots.
Great pics!

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Cinder is what I am calling the Anery C's/Morph Z's, the other names are good, but you can't search on them and I think that's a big problem.

Carol,

Awesome news, (not just because I want one this season of course). Send some of your magic my way....all the corns have been out of brumation for a month and I still haven't had any breeding yet. Little frustrating since by this time last year everyone had already bred....but I'm sure they will get around to it.

Don't worry, mine also took more than a month out of brumation before they started getting busy!

So lemme see if I got this right...
A "Z" is now called a "cinder"?

Shaky said:

So lemme see if I got this right...
A "Z" is now called a "cinder"?

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That's what I'm doing to see if it will stick. I liked "morph z" but try and search on it to find some pics of the critters and see what you get.... same goes with Anery C, and I don't think that's the best name either since almost all of these animals develop red as adults. So ya, some of are using Cinder now so info on them can easily be found in search... only time will tell how widespread the acceptance will be.

OK, I'll play. Cinder it is.
Now, have any of the mass-producers jumped on board this particular bandwagon yet, or has there been any controversy?
BTW - Is there any talk of other ratsnake genes being involved in the Z lines? I can't remember where the first one came from, but I think it was from a Keys corn.
Can you point me to the origin story?
Thanks, Carol - keep on truckin'.

Not too many people have these yet, and Rich Z (the originator) is the only mass producer who has them. He is still calling them Anery C's. I was hoping he would come up with something since he has more of these animals to have a better idea of what would be a good name. However, as the season approached, I didn't want to wait another year of posting pics of animals and info about them and never being able to recover that info in a search. So I decided to take "Cinder" for a test drive. I was able to get the American Cornsnake Registry to use the name, and it was included in the Cornsnake Morph Guide as one of the names for this morph. (amoung Z, and C)

I'll try and find the post, but Rich said this morph did come out of Upper Keys animals. The female that I got from Rich that is the source of all my Cinders was purchased as a Hypo X Upper Keys cross.

I saw the amel Type C Anerythristic and thought it looked familiar. Check out http://cccorns.com/freepics/F2BairdCorn.jpg on the bottom right I am NOT saying these have hybrid blood in them, and I know Rich wouldn't have them if he knew they did, but they do have an extremely high blotch count for being cornsnakes, don't they? I never noticed it before until I saw that albino image (and thought it looked familiar), and then I counted blotches on a few of the images posted to this site. Some exceed what is seen in emoryi......

Again, I'm certainly not saying ANYTHING, but does someone have an explaination for these high blotch counts? I was under the impression that they were from SOUTH Florida. This should reduce the blotch counts - not increase it.

Anyone with some good theories?
KJ

Not all Cinders/Z's/Anery C's have that high blotch count. Last time I asked, none of Riches have that high count and only about 25% of mine do.

To be honest, the high saddle count comes from me mixing a Hypo Miami from Don S into the line. The Hypo Miami also came from the same lines as some of his Amel Bandeds. Everything I've crossed that Hypo Miami into has shown increased saddle count. However, some of my Cinders have really shown an extreme form of it and it is currently behaving like a simple recessive. Most of the animals in my Cinder clutches will have around 40 saddles, which is high but not that unusual. About one fourth of the animals will have more than 60 saddles. In these clutches there are no "inbetweens", there are no animals that have between 50 and 60 saddles. Even more interesting, this pattern will only show up when I pair certain snakes together, even though all my Cinder making breeders are full siblings.

Some people have accused them of having emoryi in them, and I've analyzed that and found it just doesn't make sense. If anyone is interested in the full write up, pop me an email. The basic points are, 1) Emoryi pattern does not survive outcrossing. Strangely enough most Creams and Rootbeers have a lower saddle count with wide saddles. 2) Emoryi cross animals loose their red coloration for generations to come, my Cinder lines show a huge amount of red in the non homo animals. 3) The body shape of the Cinder lines are the complete opposite than the body shape of emoryi crosses.

One big difference I see in your pics (besides body shape being all wrong) is that those animals are showing red peeking through and a speckled look throughout the whole animals. Cinders do not have any color show through on the background, it's only in the saddle that they develop red over time.

I think what works best is showing the pictures of the parents. These are the parents of all my Cinders, including the Amel above. Clearly they have no hints of being part anything but corn. Obviously, when you add a new morph to them, they are going to look different. Two Okeetees can make a Sunkissed that looks like a Hybrid, doesn't mean it is. Two Bloodreds can make a Pied Sided that looks like a Hybrid, doesn't mean it is. You can't just judge on the animals appearance, you have to look at the big picture and see if the pieces fit.


Here are my Cinder producers.... obviously they don't look anything like a Biardi or Emoryi cross:







http://herpregistry.com/acr/p/12/2806.jpg

KJUN said:

I was under the impression that they were from SOUTH Florida. This should reduce the blotch counts - not increase it.

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Actually they are from Upper Keys animals which can also be known for having high saddle counts. So I think my animals have a double dose from that Hypo Miami and from the Keys heritage. And still there is a possibility of something else since about 1/4 look completely different than the rest and it shows inheritance patterns. :shrugs: Only time will tell.