Killing mice

SilverTongue, I don't know if you were directing your post at me specifically, but you may have taken it the wrong way. I wasn't saying not to express one's feelings or opinions. I think that's a basic human right that everyone should have. I was just saying what I think.
I also specifically said that I wasn't looking for a fight. I'm sure all the others who posted on this thread also were just discussing the issue and not arguing. I didn't "knock" Celeste for being an animal rights activist at all.
Again...you may not have directed the post toward me at all, but I felt the need to defend (or clarify) what I said in case you were indeed directing it toward me.

ohh hehe no problem. No i wasnt directing to anyone. I was just making some statements. I understand all the sides here. When i read a thread and i have an opinion on it i pull my soapbox out and start to jabbering. Nahh if i was directing it to anyone specifically i would say JOHN DOE SHUT THE %#@$$%# UP hehe. I was talking to everyone who would listen (read)

thank u everyone 4 not being completely angry with me*sigh*its good 2 know that there r still sane people in the world. (one of my former friends was not 1 of them. she used 2 bash me completely 4 my views.) i went 2 all the links and did more reading and so far i think everyone is right - live feeding is cruel and chemical injection can be harmful 2 your snake...CO2 sounds the best. pinatamonkey there r diff levels of being an animal rights activist. i, for 1, hav not gone so far as 2 try and condemn the practice of keeping snakes, so try not 2 generalize. (i mean no offence 2 u of course anyways i have not yet started being angry with people 4 keeping pets - i just dont eat meat or wear leather. if anyone cares, my own view is that eventually all beings that breath and have life will have rights...it is unavoidable as far as i can tell. after all, years ago people would hav laughed at Martin Luther King J 4 caring as much as he did about his fellow blacks...and now all blacks hav rights. same with women. the only beings left 4 people 2 give rights 2 are members not of their own species.
also (if anyone cares and has had the patience 2 read this extremely long message) i highly recommend the book ANIMAL LIBERATION by Peter Singer. Dont anyone think that im trying 2 force my views, because im not


By ceasing to rear and kill animals for food, we can make so much extra food available for humans that, properly distributed, it would eliminate starvation and malnutrition from this planet. Animal Liberation is Human Liberation too. (Animal Liberation, Peter Singer)

Sorry for going so OT, but I'd be careful with that guy. That book you mentioned, "Animal Liberation", was the founding book for modern animal rights groups like PETA - and I sure hope you would have nothing to do with them! His views are so extreme that some people have called him the "most dangerous man in the world". I'm against needless suffering by anything, but I think he takes his views to the extreme.

In a book called Practical Ethics (Cambridge University Press, 1979), he'd written: "killing a disabled infant is not morally equivalent to killing a person. Very often it is not wrong at all."

He has suggested, for example, that parents who give birth to a hemophiliac might be better off killing it, especially if they could replace that dead infant with one who would be "likely to have a better life."

Its funny lately how on the forums everyone tells each other where
to go but then apologize at the end or try to make it seem like they're not arguing.

Anyways about the mice I say CO2 is the best way IMHO, but then
again does it really matter? they're all heading to my snakes stomach
anyway, they all meet the same fate one way or another. Since the
begining of time it's been survival of the fittest and I dont see it changing
any time soon.

as a matter of fact i do support the PETA. it is the Animal Liberation Front that bombs buildings and such, not the PETA. the ALF is specifically designed 2 physically harm animal-hurters and i do not support them, but i do support the PETA and In Defense of Animals. and as 4 him being the most dangerous man in the world, i had no idea, but i think his arguments r very convincing. read his book and u will find out. maybe he has written other, less sane things??? if he has i was not aware of it til now...but i still believe in his book. and as 4 killing infants..i didnt know of that either. however in part of his book he argued that if scientists weren't willing 2 use a brain-damaged human in their experiment they hav no right 2 use animals. this argument is perfectly reliable and logical - since the brain-damaged human, in this case, is actually less intelligent than, say, a dog or a chimp,we should be obligated 2 use the less intelligent individual. many scientists argue that animals r so much less intelligent than we r that we should use them and not humans - well, in this instance their argument would turn back on them and they would be forced, if they follow their own advice, 2 experiment on the human. if they wont, they are being the very essence of specieism - "discriminating on one's species" which would be as wrong as showing racial or sex discrimination.

oh yes - and Ares, if u had no choice but 2 kill a cherished pet, would u rather kill him painlessly or horrifically? painlessly?? so u see that it does matter how they die....if it were, say, your dog who was going 2 die, would'nt u rather kill him quickly? or, in your case, does it not matter because "he's going 2 die anyway"? not meaning 2 sound nasty, im just putting it in another perspective.


if anyone wonders why i hav the views i do, just go 2 this site:
http://sharkonline.org/

or, if u question what i think & want better answers than i can give, go here:
http://www.peta-online.org/fp/faq.html

I am a Pantheist Pagan. To me, Everything is Divine. therefore, animals have rights as much as we do, but I would never send a penny to PETA. Why? Because they feel that NO animal, including snakes, should be kept as pets. Or as they put it: "...personal entertainment." Organiztions such as PETA and The Humane Society of the United States appear to be good programs--and for the most part they are--but they are extremist in their thoughts and proposals. PETA, especially, is more Anti-Human than it is Pro-Animal.

Somewhere, maybe on this forum, I saw a lot of information suporting what I am saying, but I cannot for the life of me remember where it was.

[God feeding God to God, because God is hungry and needs to eat. Therefore, since God is responsible for God, God takes God by the tail and smacks God against the side of the God (cage). He then places God into the God (cage), so God can eat. But, because God doesn't want God to get any God in His mouth that could hurt Him (e.g., substrate), God places God on a plastic God (e.g., plate).]

Celeste, you need to do more research into the organizations you are supporting. PETA donates money to the ALF. PETA is against all animal ownership. PETA supports violence. Here are a few quotes by their people. See what you think.

"It is time we demand an end to the misguided and abusive concept of animal ownership. The first step on this long, but just, road would be ending the concept of pet ownership." -Elliot Katz, President, In Defense of Animals, "In Defense of Animals," Spring 1997

"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation." - Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Just Like Us? Toward a Nation of Animal Rights" (symposium), Harper's, August 1988, p. 50.

“The bottom line is that people don't have the right to manipulate or to breed dogs and cats ... If people want toys, they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship, they should seek it with their own kind,"- Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Animals, May/June 1993.

"The cat, like the dog, must disappear... We should cut the domestic cat free from our dominance by neutering, neutering, and more neutering, until our pathetic version of the cat ceases to exist."

"Even if animal tests produced a cure [for AIDS], 'we'd be against it.'" --Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), as quoted in Fred Barnes, "Politics," Vogue, September 1989, p. 542.

"Arson, property destruction, burglary and theft are 'acceptable crimes' when used for the animal cause." -Alex Pacheco, Director, PETA

"Andrew Cunanan, because he got Versace to stop doing fur." -PETA's David Mathews reply when to Genre request for "Men We Love"

"I wish we all would get up and go into the labs and take the animals out or burn them down." -Ingrid Newkirk, President, PETA, National Animal Rights Convention '97, June 27, 1997

umm you had me up until the god eating god thing... umm i am not slow witted or anything but that was messed up

as far as peta is concerned...They are both right and wrong. In my opinion. They are right in their idels of animal abuse and animal treatment. I believe animals should be freed from testing facilities.

I dont beleave that the domestic breed of animals should be wiped out because it goes back 1000s of years.

They at one point started with the right ideas and kinda took the road more easily traveled. violence, arson, even terrorism. That is no better then the people doing the harm to the animals in the first place..

We are not "god" We dont have to right to do the life for a life thing.

But on the other side of the coin. If it was my daughter that was being tested on and killed in these labs. It would take a god to stop me from returing the favor