Killing mice

Umm, a lot of people ARE artificial predators - what do you call sport hunting? Or trapping? Those things are not natural. And before we get Pipatic mad, let's go to corns. (I'm not trying to be cowardly, I'm just saying that this is a corn snake forum. Yes, yes, I know, it was me who started this topic, but I didn't mean to start another fuede. Believe me, if I could I would talk all day and night about the problems of hunting and how animals should have rights.) Just out of curiousity, does anyone besides me think that male and female corns have very diff personalities? I've read that there is no difference temperment-wise, but I've met only a few corns and the males acted much more hyper and nippy, even when it wasn't the breeding time. Maybe the corns I met were just weird If anyone thought I was suggesting that we should infect people with disease or the like to lower our population, I'm sorry to give you that impression. On a closing note, I'd just like to remind everyone once again that before humans the Earth was just fine, not to say that we are evil or anything. I'm afraid I just don't get your point with hunting. I'd rather die of some natural cause than be shot, crippled, and wandering until I collapsed, but that's just IMHO. Please, no one attack me - I'm trying to resolve this argument now!!

ohhhh...i.....feel.....soapbox....near......must.. ..resist...the....pull....

lets talk about corns

I would certainly like to know how it is that the person quoted could possible know that for EVERY animal taken by a hunter, another two are left to die a miserable wounded death in the bushes! I have been hunting for thirty years, and I have NEVER left an animal to die like that! Also, hunting artificially encourages the animals to breed more and have higher birth rates? That's just inane.

It seems to me that this has become something like what happens whenever those who have no children begin to lecture parents on "the best way to raise them." In my opinion, everyone who is rabidly for "animal rights" ought to do whatever they can to remove themselves from every comfort that is brought to them by way of animal usages. When they do, they will be so far removed from modern society that the rest of us will no longer be able to hear them. The whole thing is ridiculous, in my opinion.

As to killing your mice the best way, I have no real opinion. I buy mine frozen, but when I used to buy them live, I just whacked them on the counter. They never knew what hit them, and my snakes were safe.

You are one person who hunts; they were taking a TOLL, meaning that the vast majority of hunters cripple 2 for 1. While you personally may not have injured many of your victims, thousands of others have. Oh and BTW, it isn't that hard to take away at least 90% of things that are cruel to animals - I don't eat meat, use products with animal lard in them; I buy free-range chicken eggs, and use only materials which were not tested on animals and say so. The only thing left to do is buy an electric car, which is not a relavant option since I can't drive. I don't use hair spray anymore (ozone layer) and I avidly recycle. I'm still finding new ways to reduce my use of animal-hurting products. I'm still alive, aren't I? It certainly doesn't hurt you to have a cruelty-free lifestyle, now does it? It only takes away some of your comforts (ex: eating meat) which, in this case, is actually debilitating to your health. And you cannot deny that it is unnatural for sport hunters to kill for pleasure!! Before humans were here (amazing, isn't it? Some people in this world, not accusing anyone here, seem to think that humans are the darling of the universe. To them, I say this: read Evolution by Charles Darwin. You'll find out that we ARE animals, no matter how much we try to hide it) animals did just fine on their own. Whaty we need to do is step back and let wildlife do just what the name implies: be wild. I ask you (and I know that this sounds extreme) to think like Gandhi (yes, he was an animal-rights activist) and respect all life.

I ask you to recognize that your attitudes to members of other species are a form of prejudice no less objectionable than prejudice about a person's race or sex.
-Animal Liberation, Singer


Send all the opposing messages you care to. I'm not offended and neither should you be; I love a discussion that involves a truly absorbing topic. I dearly hope that no one is taking this personally. I also hope that, at some point, this thing can be over so that we can get back to corn talk. (Not to say that I don't like this; it isn't often I get to express all my thoughts like this, which you can probably tell by my horrifically long posts

Oh my goodness, Dustin I bet you never thought that your simple question about using a chemical to kill your mice would lead to this!!! I already told you that I would be concerned about the effect that the chem. would have on your snake.

Now I have been reading all of this for DAYS now and going well to hold my tongue as I don't think this is the proper place to discuss most of the opinions posted in this thread. Having said that my short 2 cents..............
1 I am very for animal rights but the jokes on anyone that thinks we can just pull out and nature will restore it self! WE have already destroyed too many of the natural preditors that GOD put here to control population.

2 Celeste to you I say(very nicely) read this: The Holy Bible which will set the record straight about evolution and who has rule over whom. Although I agree with alot of what you have said we do not live in an ideal world so our ideals must be at the least practical or noone will listen!


Peace all
Colleen

The killing of mice for snake food is one thing, but bending the topic to include the killing of any animals for any reason is stretching the limits to what I have designed this message board for.

Just for the record, my personal belief is that the cost of your freedom is that YOU have to accept and tolerate the freedom of other people to do things you may not particularly like. I am not a hunter, but I have to shoot varmints (squirrels - aka tree rats) that are destructive to my property. No one is likely to have an unbreakable personal policy to NEVER kill absolutely anything. It's just a matter of where you draw the line, starting from pathogenic microbes up to human beings. Put your line somewhere in between or at either end. It depends on the circumstances you find yourself in. Most people will kill life threatening or even comfort threatening microbes. A black widow spider crawling across the rug in the family room will likely see the wrong end of a shoe. Many people will kill for food or have someone else kill for them. Others will kill for the sport of it. A few, in defense of their lives or the lives of loved ones will kill for self defense, and not hesitate one bit if they are defending themselves from another human being.

The argument about hunting is rather pointless. What happens to the populations of herbivores when they have uncontrolled population growth? Just let them do that? What will be the results of that program? Prior to man's interference, there were natural predators that kept the populations in check. In most cases, these animals no longer exist in most of their native ranges. Why? Because some people got upset when their small children occasionally would vanish when the wolves or cougars visited unexpectedly. Some of the predators found small humans much easier prey than tackling something that fights back much harder. Are you advocating a return to those days? If your small child was being stalked by a couple of wolves, would you not do everything necessary to protect your child, including killing the wolves? Or would that be a suitable sacrifice? Which would be more cruel? Allowing the wolves to take your child, allowing he or she to be killed and eaten, or fighting back with whatever tools necessary to save your child, even if it means killing the wolves? What happens when you only have two choices and either one means something must die because of your choice?

As mentioned above, I have had to (and undoubtedly will in the future) kill varmints that are destructive to my property. Do I enjoy doing it? No, I do not. Is it cruel? Depends on your perspective, I guess. Cruelty is in the eye of the beholder. Certainly the varmints would rather have their way rather than me having mine in the situation. But I am certainly not inclined to ask them to join me in a vote on the issue, with all of us having an equal say in the matter.

I have also been known to kill fire ants, swatted mosquitoes and flies, flushed ticks down the toilet, stomped on roaches (known as palmetto bugs in these parts) and sent more mice to the promised land than most people would ever believe. Is that cruel? I'm sure they all weren't happy about it, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

And yes, I am a meat eater. It's not because I am cruel, but because I LIKE to eat meat. The mechanics of getting the meat from being an animal to being food on my table is irrelevant to me. If someone else would not provide me the means to do so, then I would do whatever is necessary to provide the meat myself for my table.

Umm sorry I have to ask, but where did you come about this information about wolves. I compleatly agree about everything you said but that. I hate to say this, but the stuff you just said about wolves is as much BC as the ruhmers going around about snakes. I dont appreaciate it. I have researched wolves. I have reasearched snakes. Please dont share false or mislead information unless you can show proof. I am sorry and I dont mean to be rude, but it is only fair. We expect people to be better understanding and educated about Herps. We must also return the favor about other animals.

sorry for any mis spellings

for more information good and bad about wolves check here and other website like it please.

http://www.bitterroot.net/wild/

Putting Risk Into Perspective
- Forest Service email reported 1992 figures on the wildlife hazards afield. Topping the list of animal-caused human deaths were deer, racking up 131 for the year. Except in movies, sharks took only one human, bees 43, and rattlesnakes ten.
- You are more likely to be killed by a coconut falling on your head than by a shark (therefore we absolutely oppose the introduction of coconut trees to Montana!)
- From 1989-94 there were 109 fatal dog attacks in the U.S.
- Children crushed to death by televisions since 1990: 2
- An average of 100 people per year choke to death on ballpoint pens.


In the next year:


- You have a 1 in 2 million chance of dying from falling out of bed.
- You have a 1 in 2 million chance of being killed by an animal.


Lifetime risks:

1 in 3 chance that you'll die of heart disease.
1 in 5 chance that you'll die of cancer.
1 in 45 chance that you'll die in an auto accident.
1 in 72 chance that you'll deliberately kill yourself.
1 in 700,000 chance that you'll be killed by a dog.


So if society deems wolves expendable due to the threat they pose to human safety, it only stands to reason that ballpoint pens, televisions, cars, and dogs should be eliminated also.

corns ,corns ,corns ,corns, corns,corns,corns,corns and guess what more corns
now i ve got your attention last night while on this CORN FORUM,
3 of my 16 normal but het for amel were hatching,got some pic and will post when developed..thought i would share that with you all lol

Gratzzzz!