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Salmonella
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:28 AM   #1
wretchedprocess
Salmonella

I may have just become one of the Mutant Few to actually contract salmonella from one of my snakes. Can't say for certain, but the timing is suspicious. Luckily, in my case it manifested as an absolutely EXCRUCIATING 36 hours or so, and is now mostly over.

The thing is, if I DID pick it up from my snake, she has to have a pretty heavy load if it in her gut. Yes, she pooped on my jeans. But I immediately changed out of them, and washed my hands as soon as I put her away, et cetera. I'm willing to concede that I may not have washed my hands WELL, but even so.

I've read that in general salmonella doesn't cause illness in snakes, they're just carriers. However, I also came across mentions in old threads here about snakes dying of salmonella. So I thought I'd ask-- is this actually dangerous for the snakes?

Again, I can't be absolutely sure it was salmonella, or that it came from her. But, just in case, I'd like to know whether there are any worries for the health of the snake if that is what happened.

Thanks!
 
Old 09-28-2010, 06:11 AM   #2
bitsy
Can't shed light on the impact on the snake. It sounds like the risk to snakes is minimal though. Hopefully someone in the know can comment shortly.

If you've eaten chicken or eggs recently, they're statistically a much more likely source.

As for the timing being suspicious following "The Jeans Incident", remember that some forms of food poisoning take up to ten days to incubate and show symptoms. Your current problem could have been caused by anything you've eaten or drunk in well over a week.
 
Old 09-28-2010, 06:37 AM   #3
diamondlil
Did you take a stool sample to send off for analysis? (from both of you) Salmonella from reptiles hasn't been proven as a cause in humans very often at all.
 
Old 09-28-2010, 06:48 AM   #4
wretchedprocess
No, and in truth I'm not terribly concerned about it. I'm okay now, and even if that was the cause, I don't expect it to happen again. Since the awful part only lasted a bit more than a day and I could comfortably identify it as a nasty stomach bug, I didn't even go to a doctor. That part of the story was more an explanation for why I had started wondering whether salmonella could be damaging to a corn. Whether this particular snake is a little biological weapon or not, a fair number of them do carry it, and it seemed like it would be a good thing to ask straight up and have clarified.

No worries-- I won't be joining the Salmonella Horror Brigade. I just want to know whether it's possible for it to hurt my little ones if they have it.
 
Old 09-28-2010, 06:51 AM   #5
wretchedprocess
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitsy View Post
As for the timing being suspicious following "The Jeans Incident", remember that some forms of food poisoning take up to ten days to incubate and show symptoms. Your current problem could have been caused by anything you've eaten or drunk in well over a week.
True, and I'm just as suspicious of a mussel I ate in an otherwise delicious soup a day or two earlier. But I'm less concerned about the mussel's health than my snakes'!
 
Old 09-28-2010, 07:02 AM   #6
Nanci
So if you didn't get it diagnosed by stool sample, how do you know it was salmonella and not any other stomach bug?

The snake can't be affected by the type of salmonella that chickens or mice carry.
 
Old 09-28-2010, 07:39 AM   #7
wretchedprocess
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanci View Post
So if you didn't get it diagnosed by stool sample, how do you know it was salmonella and not any other stomach bug?

The snake can't be affected by the type of salmonella that chickens or mice carry.
I don't. My point in mentioning that I had gotten ill was merely to introduce the reason I had started wondering about salmonella in corn snakes. IF I had gotten it from her, then she would probably have to be shedding a pretty large amount in her stool, so would that mean that she was in any health danger?

Perhaps I shouldn't have included it after all-- people seem to be getting almost offended, as though I am blaming the snake. I know that people opposed to the hobby often bring up salmonella as a much greater danger to humans than it is, and that can certainly be frustrating. But that's really not what I am trying to do. If I implied at any point that I was certain that my recent difficulty had been salmonella, it was unintentional, and I apologize. I really am just trying to figure out whether salmonella, of whatever kind they normally carry, has a chance of causing a snake harm.
 
Old 09-28-2010, 08:11 AM   #8
Nanci
I found a pretty cool article- based on post-mortem findings.

Here are the highlights:

MATERIALS AND METHODS

Between 1979 and 1983, 150 reptiles
were received at the Veterinary Services
Laboratory in Edmonton, Alberta.
Most came from private owners and
had been obtained through pet shop
retailers. Ninety snakes representing
two families and seven genera, 46
lizards from six families and 12 genera,
and 14 turtles from one family and two
genera were submitted. Routine postmortem
examinations were performed
and selected tissues were fixed for histological
sections. Organs with gross
pathological lesions or from cases suggestive
of septicemia were cultured. In
addition, in all cases a portion of the
distal third of the intestinal tract was
submitted for Salmonella isolation.


RESULTS

Thirty-one Salmonella serotypes
were identified from the respective
reptile families
(Table I). Of particular
interest are the isolations of S. harmelem
from a boa of the genus Epicrates,
S. jangwani from an iguana and S.
mowanjum from a gecko. These
appear to be the first isolations of these
serotypes in Canada. Forty-six (51%)
of the snakes were positive for Salmonellae
but only 15 (17%) died of salmonellosis
(i.e. 33% of Salmonella
positive animals).
Similarly, 22 (48%)
of the lizards were positive while five
(11%) died of Salmonella infection
(i.e. 23% of positive animals). Somewhat
surprising was the low prevalence
of Salmonellae in turtles. Of the
14 examined, Salmonellae were
detected in only one asymptomatic
carrier.

Salmonellosis in snakes was commonly
manifested as severe, subacute
necrotizing enteritis involving most of
the intestines but more frequently the
posterior half (Fig. 1).
From these
cases, Salmonellae were isolated in
pure culture and examinations for
entamoebae were negative. Septicemia
resulted in subacute hepatitis, sometimes
with granuloma formation.
Laboured breathing was the clinical
sign in a Boa constrictor with Salmonella
pneumonia characterized by
interstitial inflammatory cell infiltration
and much alveolar fibrin exudation.
These changes are similar to earlier
descriptions (11,12). Chronic
salmonellosis caused fibrosing interstitial
nephritis in an iguana. An
Ameiva lizard and an iguana suffered
from severe oophoritis. In two iguanas
the infection was associated with
myocarditis and in one of them also
with aortic valvular endocarditis (Fig.
2).

DISCUSSION

In attempting to assess the implications
to public health of the findings
reported herein, several points must be
borne in mind. Although the high proportion
both of snakes and of lizards
infected with Salmonellae is disconcerting,
a serious hazard to humans
generally does not necessarily follow.

The serotypes encountered fall into
two main groups, those of sub-genus I
and the remainder belonging to subgenera
II or IV including mainly
strains previously classified as Arizona
hinshawii. Many, but not all subgenus
I types identified in this study
have commonly been found in poultry
or in animal feeds.
Chicks and other products of
domestic agriculture are major components
of diets fed to captive reptiles.
The high prevalence of Salmonellae in
such products is well recognized.
Without conclusive proof or firm circumstantial
evidence, these reptiles
cannot fairly be incriminated as an
important source of human salmonellosis.

Strains of sub-genera other than
sub-genus I rarely infect humans (16).
Recognizing that most captive snakes
and some lizards originate outside
Canada, infections with the very rare
serotypes reported are probably
acquired before importation into
Canada.
Persons handling reptiles, particularly
those maintaining them as pets,
should be aware of the attendant
hazards. However, given their restricted
popularity as pets and their dry
environment, there is no need at present
for public health surveillance of
these animals.
Our survey supports earlier findings
(13, 14) that only a small proportion of
Salmonella carrying reptiles show clinical
signs or die of salmonellosis.
 
Old 09-28-2010, 08:20 AM   #10
Nanci
Salmonella-infected children, one by iguana, one by snakes
 

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