Found a brumation spot

I have been moving my max min thermometer all over the house for the last month looking for a constant except able spot to brumate. Well my house is really old (1830's) so constant is the problem but I found a cabinet in the kitchen that stays at a perfect 55 degrees and 44 percent humidity. So the kids had their last mouse Sunday and I figure New Years delay they will go in the cabinet for 4-5 weeks. That is the part I am nurvuse about but I guess that is what they need right?

I would make sure to bring their temps down slowly (you may have already been planning to do so), but suddenly going from mid 80s to 55 degrees is probably (definitely) not very good for your snakes.

If you haven't already started lowering their temperatures, I would do so now. Take it down a few degrees every week or so, until you're really close to 55, and only then should you put them in brumation for good.

Good luck, hope you get lots of cute babies!

Why bother with brumation? I've never brumated, and always seem to produce large fertile clutches.

I guess what I'm trying to say is.... Why put your animals thru a stressful ( if not done properly, like Mother Nature does it) situation when you don't have too?

No, they don't "need" to brumate at all. Some breeders brumate to align everyone's reproductive cycle. I brumated two years in a row. I did not have 100% fertility those years. My snakes are not brumated and do just fine in terms of fertility. They aren't all breeding, laying and hatching on the same day, but I wouldn't want them to be. You read on here every year of snakes that die "for no reason" in brumation. We know that cold is the number one stress for reptiles, so for me the risk isn't worth the benefit, if there even is a significant benefit.

Nanci said:

No, they don't "need" to brumate at all. Some breeders brumate to align everyone's reproductive cycle. I brumated two years in a row. I did not have 100% fertility those years. My snakes are not brumated and do just fine in terms of fertility. They aren't all breeding, laying and hatching on the same day, but I wouldn't want them to be. You read on here every year of snakes that die "for no reason" in brumation. We know that cold is the number one stress for reptiles, so for me the risk isn't worth the benefit, if there even is a significant benefit.

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So would it better to just cool them a little for a two week or so time frame 68-71 which is my house temp just turning off the UTH and light and give them some darkness or do nothing at all and keep it 78-82 and if one of these work better when dose breeding season introductions and such work best.

I leave the females on heat- 82-84, and feed as usual. I keep the males at 78-80 year 'round. I've have heard that higher temps lead to infertility in males. I don't know how true that is, or what the cut-off is, but mine digest fine at 78-80, so I keep them at that. The room temp varies from 64-84- winter in Florida...

I start putting pairs together some time after January 1st. I usually wait until the female has her first shed of the new year. I pay no attention to the male's shed cycle. The male will usually breed even if he's in blue. I save the female's shed in her viv, and put it in the breeding bin with the pair.

So (and everyone has their own method that works for them, this is just mine, that I learned from my mentor John Finsterwald)

I put the pair together every Sunday evening, after the female's first shed of the year. I put them in a bare bin, which has been lightly misted on the walls. I put the female's shed, also misted, in with them, for pheromones. I don't hover over them, but I do keep an eye on them to make sure they are getting along.

I leave them together for 30 minutes. "People say" that if they haven't hooked up in ten minutes, they aren't going to, and I have found this to be mostly true. If the female is wildly running away, she isn't going to consent. Sometimes the male will give up, and it helps to get the pair moving around together, in the same direction, to get him interested again, rather than "cuddling."

If they do not mate, I put them together again the next Sunday. After they breed the first time, I put the pair together every three days until they breed 4-5 times, or the female refuses twice in a row.

I may put them together (if they haven't bred yet) on an evening when it is raining/storming- that seems to encourage breeding behaviour.

After the female has stopped breeding for that cycle (no more attempts will be made) I remove her large water bowl, replace it with a small bowl (don't want her to lay eggs in her water) and give her a lay box. Usually the female lays after her shed, but not always- she can lay at any time. I also feed the female every 5-7 days, and exercise her daily for 10 minutes. I do not feed after the female goes blue and retreats to her lay box (until the clutch is laid).

I have a couple stickies down in my personal forum here about preparing the lay box and care of the breeding female.

Chip Bridges has a sticky down in his personal forum about Should I Breed My Snake? which is worth a read.

Do you continue to feed normally if they are willing to feed?

jstar said:

Do you continue to feed normally if they are willing to feed?

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No!

You don't want any food in their belly!!!!

If they are still willing to feed, you're probably not cool enough....But PLEASE... do NOT take my word for it....as I have NEVER put my snakes through brumation.

jstar said:

Do you continue to feed normally if they are willing to feed?

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When?

In brumation, mating, gestation?

Brumation- absolutely not.

Mating? I feed the male immediately afterwards, and let the female sit in the breeding bin for an hour or so, and then feed. The three day mating interval allows the snakes to maintain their regular feeing intervals, more or less, with the males being fed every two to three weeks, (depending on age/weight) and the females every week to ten days, depending on weight/tendency to get fat- you don't want a fat female when breeding her).

Gestation- after the female goes blue, she is not fed until the eggs are laid. The day of laying, she gets a little snack when I am positive she is done/ no more eggs can be palpated, something like a couple hoppers. Then on the next regular feeding day, she gets her normal adult mouse, and continues with an adult mouse every 5-7 days until she regains her weight _prior to_ the start of the breeding season (not her fully-gravid weight)!

I'm sorry....I was asking if you keep feeding if you do not brumate in the winter and still breed in late winter or spring.

jstar said:

I'm sorry....I was asking if you keep feeding if you do not brumate in the winter and still breed in late winter or spring.

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Yep.... If you don't bromate..... Care resumes as normal. Feeding doesn't change. But be aware.... Some males will go off feed for extended periods when the ladies become " available". : )

OK thanks. I started brumating this year but may try without next year. Do you actually find that you have to watch the girls from getting too heavy without brumating? I'd assume that brumating becomes a little bit of a diet for them. I know they don't lose much weight brumating, but they don't continue to gain.

jstar said:

OK thanks. I started brumating this year but may try without next year. Do you actually find that you have to watch the girls from getting too heavy without brumating? I'd assume that brumating becomes a little bit of a diet for them. I know they don't lose much weight brumating, but they don't continue to gain.

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When you see what happens to the female after laying a decent clutch....you'll

wish she was bigger before becoming gravid.

a 324 gram female will probably lose Half that weight on average.

True. Thanks for your help.

I'm going to say that I slow down the females' growth rate from the quicker weight recovery after laying to more of a slow gain during the fall and winter. I like to see a gain of 10 grams or so per feeding. The females are getting fed every week (the smaller ones who had their first clutch) to every two weeks (most of them) to every three weeks (the fatties). It's much better to have a lean, muscular female at the beginning of breeding season, no matter what she weighs, than packing on the grams to get her over some arbitrary minimum weight for breeding.

Nanci, do you feel a mature breeding female should gain back her egg weight plus some every year after her second or so year of laying? I mean how heavy do we want to let them go to over time?

Yes. I like a very slow weight gain for both sexes. I like them to be in the 400-650 range, not 1000 plus.

I don't know what corn snakes do in the wild here in north Florida. We frequently see 82 or so one day and 40 the next. There is no constant anywhere in our area.

Myca said:

I don't know what corn snakes do in the wild here in north Florida. We frequently see 82 or so one day and 40 the next. There is no constant anywhere in our area.

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cave systems? Nice and cool....steady temps.

Not up on my geography of Florida, but there's got to be places they can get out of the heat in winter! (Lol )