Another controvercial topic:The Crypto "secret"...

I have been thinking about this topic for a very long time.
Everything started after some books and articles I read,about what I think is a hidden timebomb in our passion (corns).Its Cryptosporidium or else known as Crypto.
I think it is something like the things in life,we say "that would never happen to me".And when it happens we need to keep it secret..
Well it hasn't happened but what are the odds when no one seems to take it under great consideration.
I have read everywhere it is so contagious and that there is no cure.For me that means that even if I have only one snake in my collection that has it,all of the others can become carriers and die of it or not,if I'm not carefull with all the quarantine and hygiene rules I must take when having corns.
How many of us keep these rules?How about the breeders?Do they all keep them?And the wholesellers who buy snakes from anyone and keep them and handle them all together?The petshops?Those who sell snakes at shows and let anyone hold anything?I keep thinking how easy is for crypto to spread everywhere under those circumstances.
What should we do to protect our collections from it?
After all many corns die and we don't know what went wrong.Isn't there a rule in the hobby that says "something can go wrong".I wonder how many times the "wrong"/cause was crypto..


I must state that by no means I want to offend someone or spread the word of disaster in our hobby.Just want to share with you my thoughts.

I don't think that people hide crypto. As a matter of fact, and number of people have come on here to discuss the fact that their collection had to be destroyed due to infection. I personally follow all quarantine protocols when a new animal comes into my collection. Depending upon where it comes from is how long I hold it in quarantine. 3 months if it's someone I know, 6 if I don't. They are kept in a seperate room fed last and all equipment is sterilized. I don't think that crypto really runs rampant. I'm sure it's out there, but it's not in every animal you come across.

My opinion, which is based on zero real evidence, is that crypto is probably more widespread than we'd like to believe. I believe that it resides nearly dormant in many animals, and it only gets a foothold when these animals' health becomes compromised in some other way. Poor enclosure hygeine, improper temps, improper brumation conditions, maybe even proper brumation conditions in a snake that is somehow already compromised, etc. may open the door to a full-blown outbreak in a snake. How do you quarantine against something that may not show up for years, or may not show up at all?

Who tests every single animal they own? Are we sure that the tests are reliable in robust animals with low-levels of infection? If I buy a snake right now, intending to breed it to one of my long-term, healthy snakes next season, are eight months of quarantine sufficient when the parasite can go undetected for years or forever? When people do breeding loans, do they follow strict quarantine protocol procedures each time?

I'm not saying that quarantine is a b.s. concept, but I think that there are a lot of keepers and breeders who don't do it or don't do it right, but they're not about to admit it publicly. I'm not judging them; it would be hypocritical for me to do so. To be able to judge, I'd have to spend many, many thousands of dollars and extensively test all of my snakes periodically. Who does this? What would become of our hobby if it was no longer an affordable endeavor? Are you willing to pay a few hundred dollars extra to have a negative-tested hatchling shipped to you? Are you going to pay $400 shipped for that Okeetee hatchling you've been eyeing? Are the results reliable enough to trust if you test the snake when the parasite isn't shedding oocytes (I think that's what they're called)?

Crypto scares the heck out of me, but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that it's something we're controlling.

Wow, I honestly hadn't even heard of this. But that's why we have the forums, to spread knowledge. Thanks for starting this thread, if only to put the concept out in the forums one more time. Now i've got to go do some research.

I agree with you there Dean. There's a whole bunch of diseases among animals and humans that reside among us without ever manifesting itself. I hardly call that a problem though. It only becomes a problem when certain factors lead to infection. Do I test each of my animals? No. Would I? No. I don't think the risk of getting the disease is high enough to warrant it. I don't quarantine for crypto anyway. I quarantine more for RI's and parasites than for that. It hardly crosses my mind as something that my snakes will come into. The pythons are quarantined a little longer to make sure there's no IBD although it's rare among green tree pythons. I still want to make sure. The corns I buy are usually from people I know. I know the animals they came from were healthy, and the conditions they are kept in. I really don't think I'm going to run screaming from the room because of crypto. It's like saying I'm going to get salmonella from my snake. It's possible, but unlikely.

When I lost my MBK Pancho in April, his repeated regurges and general failure to thrive put crypto immediately into my head. I did already clean out the feeding tubs and hand wash between handling diferent snakes, and had luckily always used his own personal feeding tub because I was worried his 'kingsnake' scent would affect the corns. Then when I found he had mites I was even more careful in preventing any cross-contamination for the other snakes.
I still wonder if he did have crypto or not, and whether I'm harbouring it in my collection, but I just can't afford the costs quoted by my nearest herp vet to test them all. The vet insists on charging a consultation fee for each animal as well as for each fecal. While they are symptom-free I'll carry on with good hygiene and hope for the best.
I don't know if this means my head is in the sand, but it's the best fit solution for now. Unless there are any signs of trouble I'll hold off on the testing. If symptoms develop I'd have to decide whether to run the tests or just euthanise everything and start again

Originally Posted by diamondlil

I don't know if this means my head is in the sand, but it's the best fit solution for now.

I agree with your post, Janine. When I used the expression "stick my head in the sand", I meant that to apply to people I've seen who get preachy about preventive measures when they are really not controlling the situation in any real or effective way. I've seen Europeans on here get borderline accusatory as if the crypto in Europe is the result of bad or negligent practices among American breeders and exporters. This is B.S., in my opinion. I'll bet by the time there were 20 corn snakes in Europe, crypto was already present. Heck, it could have been there BEFORE the first corn was imported. I've also heard of them having their snakes tested, but the cost of the tests is 1/10 the cost of crypto testing here. It makes me wonder if these inexpensive tests are as thorough as the highly expensive tests that are done here. I know I can't afford to have sixty or seventy snakes tested at $300 per snake. Fortunately, I have no reason to suspect that any of my snakes carry the parasite.

I suspect it is probably lurking around a lot more frequently than we would guess. But from what I have read, even testing your whole colony (expensive!) doesn't guarantee anything because they can test with false negatives several times.

So until better tests are available, the best we can do is quarantine new arrivals and any suspicious animals. And test any that have symptoms, but isolate as if they are for sure positive. I guess if you were really paranoid, you could euthanize any snake that ever regurged at all, but that seems a little overboard. I am not sure what else you could do at this point.

Of course, buying from a dealer who gets animals from many sources and dumps them all in a couple of cages together would certainly increase chances for exposure to all kinds of disease. Most breeders and specialty reptile shops are not likely to do that (compared to a general pet store that carries some reptiles as well as other animals.)

Well,most of my thoughts are really close to Dean's.My problem is that I don't really know who to trust.Do others care about Crypto?Not many I think.And that has nothing to do with where they come from,U.S or E.U.
Most of my snakes are and will be imported.I try to have them from people who give me the idea that know and care about "little details" as that.But I can never be sure,right?
I too try to keep high standards in quarantine and hygiene issues.My collection is small at the moment and I'm planning to have some lab tests on.But as Dean said the cost is 1/10 of the cost you have to pay for every single snake,even in my small country.
I don't feel though that the result will be 100% accurate nor 100% false.It's for me another measure I have to take to make me feel better in a way.I feel responsible for the snakes I own and would like to feel that I do always my best for them and me.

I don't think that crypto is a secret. Its a well documented disease among snakes, especially colubrids. The testing for it is much less than testing for other diseases, like IBD, where the only accurate test is a liver biopsy. My vet only charged $350 because he's exotics and reptiles only. Other vets were quoting $700. As far as I know, the best test method would be a gastric lavage to test the stomach fluids for crypto as opposed to a fecal sample. There was someone on here last year, I believe, that had a snake test + for crypto and he chose to euthanise his entire collection. We each have to follow the best quarantine methods we can and make educated decisions about culling, selling, buying snakes as we go.

Now that I've been through a horrible scare with the possibility of IBD in my collection, which cost me $350 for the biopsy to prove my animals are clean, I have to wonder with each animal I buy, "Is this the one that's going to wipe out my entire collection?" I've now sell rules for myself. I will no longer buy any snake from a pet store or adopt through a rescue. I will only buy snakes from breeders at shows who have receipts, guarantees and are willing to answer pointed questions, or from breeders online who are in good standing with the BOI and/or that I have seen on the forums and trust their knowledge and stock. Its still a risk I take, but at least I already have almost every known gene in my collection and there aren't many more genes to obtain. LOL