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Adult Corn cage size for n+1 animals?

M

Matias

New member
Here has been a lot of talk about tank sizes and how many corns one can keep in one cage. Without getting into deeper why you should keep only one corn in the cage, I need to have some recommendations (opinions) which is the minimum cage size for n+1 animals.

Of course one animal for a cage is ideal and everyone should aim to that, but many people have just few corns which they want to keep all of them in the same cage. What tank size would you recommend to them?

Is extra 25% for every animal enough if the cage was originally 42 gallons (140 litres)? What I mean is 1.25^n, not 1+0.25*n, so that the sizes for the n animals are:

1) 42 gallons (140 litres)
2) 53 gallons (175 litres)
3) 66 gallons (220 litres)
4) 85 gallons (275 litres)
5) 105 gallons (345 litres)

I wouldn't put over 3 animals (of the same sex) into same cage and more than 5 is asking for problems, imho.

Any ideas?

- Matias
 
Aren't snakes, in general, "isolationists"? Unlike some mammals and birds they don't live in groups or even pairs. Haven't I repeatedly read the caging them together can be stressful and they have to have plenty of space to get away from each other and multiple hides? Of course there is the problem many owners (not yourself, you indicated that you would keep same sex snakes together) face which is not having them correctly sexed and ending up with them breeding and not being ready for the responsibility of incubating eggs and caring for hatchlings. I'm not sure but I don't think 2 or 3 males together would work either, I'm sure I've read that, wish I knew where.

Anyway, I can't answer the question on size for more than one animal, I'm sure somebody else here can.
 
Actually I was not talking about my animals. But because so many people have asked how large the caging should be, I thought that it might be better to ask other opinions too..

Because you can usually keep corns together, many people tend to do it, mostly because they want more than one color and they have no space for many tanks. :(

Usually I wouldn't sell hatchlings of different sexes for those who are not ready to keep them separately, but I cannot refuse to sell the animals, if the someone buys e.g. 2 males or females for a moderate sized or large tank. If they are keeped seperately for few first weeks or months, there are usually no problems when they are put together into larger cage. Usually there seem to be no problems in the breeding season either (even with adult males), as long as they have been all the time together and there are no corns of opposite sex. Of course I make sure that people know, that one should be always ready to separate cagemates and the more snakes there are, the more possible it is to run into trouble..
 
quicksilver--

two males together in a cage would be just as suitable as two females because male cornsnakes do not establish territory or mates (? not sure... maybe as long as its not going on right then....)

im almost positive this is correct but I can see where you are coming from with lizards and such.
 
Re: quicksilver--

louis said:
two males together in a cage would be just as suitable as two females because male cornsnakes do not establish territory or mates (? not sure... maybe as long as its not going on right then....)
Click to expand...

Err.. I wouldn't recommend anyone to put two males into same cage during breeding season when there are females nearby. Usually the smaller male will panic in 10 minutes (after a short "fight") and run into the front class again and again until you remove him from the cage.

But otherwise it's possible to keep two or even three males together at peace. Usually they dance with each other soon after you've put them together, but after that they seem to be together unless one of them is much smaller.
 
The fact is snakes ARE solitary animals.

Some corns will have no issues livign together, but telling 'newbies" or anyone else this can lead to trouble. Why? Because keeping them together is inviting problems in where you would normally have none.

If keeping them toegther leads to problems sometimes arising, but keeping them seperate leads to none of those problems, which option do you think is best? I understand some people keeping them with no problems, but I don't understand the general population thinking this is o.k. for most corns. When in fact it *can* lead to disease transmission, in rare cases cannabilisim, early breeding, and prolonged periods of stress that can shorten the lifespan of the snake, or prevent it from properly thriving.

And this is no reason for it:

"Because you can usually keep corns together, many people tend to do it, mostly because they want more than one color and they have no space for many tanks. "

People who cannot afford to properly house two,three or even four corns aren't going to be able to pay for vet care if problems arise from the situation. So they should not be buying animals they cannot afford to keep no matter what situation may arise.

And people thinking that its "o.k. all the time" to do with with corns can end up in a terrible situation (in some cases) just because you "usually" can. When someone who has been keeping corns for ten years has two in a cage, they at least have the experience, and most likely the financial means to deal with any problems that come about. Not to mention the experience to identify the problems in the first place that a new owner might miss.

I see no legitamite reason to keep cornsnakes together, and the only half legit reason I have heard is for saving money on tanks. But when rubbermaids are under ten bucks, and tanks can be had for that price at garage sales, that "reason" doesn't really work anymore.

If someone could give me a legit reason for keeping them together, and NOT a human reason...i.e. my mom doesn't like more than one tank, or I can't afford two heat sources, but a reason that has to do with the natural instincts and lifesytle of a cornsnake then I may tell people in the future they may have no problems. But until then I advise everyone to keep seperatly if they can. This is all IMHO. :D

bmm
 
And to answer the question, no I don't think 25% more for each animal is nearly enough.

For one, two snakes means four hiding spots. You cannot force them to hide together to get the heat gradient they need, this can lead to stress, or just plain not achieving the temp they need because they want to avoid the other snake.

Lets say the proper size for one adult is a 20 gallon tank.

Add 25% for another corn and you have a 25 gallon tank. That leaves little to no room for either snake to have personal space that spans the entire gradient of heat.

If someone must keep two corns together I personally feel you need at least double (100% more) the space for one, and at minimum at least 75% more space per snake.

bmm
 
Matias, in my opinion your suggestion of 25% extra for each additional snake is just about right.
 
How do you people find threads that are over 2 years old? If you're doing a search----or going back 15 pages---why is there a need to make a post?

Goodness gracious.
 
No search necessary, look below this thread and you will see similar threads. Thats where I found this one, at the bottom of another thread.
 
JohnC said:
No search necessary, look below this thread and you will see similar threads. Thats where I found this one, at the bottom of another thread.
Click to expand...

Cool, let's find any post we can that's related to the new topic---and then read it and post, no matter what the date is.

Great.
 
Matias said:
Here has been a lot of talk about tank sizes and how many corns one can keep in one cage. Without getting into deeper why you should keep only one corn in the cage, I need to have some recommendations (opinions) which is the minimum cage size for n+1 animals.

Of course one animal for a cage is ideal and everyone should aim to that, but many people have just few corns which they want to keep all of them in the same cage. What tank size would you recommend to them?

Is extra 25% for every animal enough if the cage was originally 42 gallons (140 litres)? What I mean is 1.25^n, not 1+0.25*n, so that the sizes for the n animals are:

1) 42 gallons (140 litres)
2) 53 gallons (175 litres)
3) 66 gallons (220 litres)
4) 85 gallons (275 litres)
5) 105 gallons (345 litres)

I wouldn't put over 3 animals (of the same sex) into same cage and more than 5 is asking for problems, imho.

Any ideas?

- Matias
Click to expand...
kewl :cool: :cool:
 
JohnC said:
If you were aiming to put me off this forum for life, you have succeeded.
Goodbye Cornsnakes . com
Click to expand...

Aw, c'mon John, you shouldn't leave over this. People are just trying to tell you that resurrecting ancient threads is a "breach of decorum" here. Like any community, this web-community has certain rules, many of which are unwritten. The participants here make this board what it is. Most of them don't like ancient thread resurrection, so why not oblige them? There are plenty of current threads, and most of them recycle the same topics as the old threads you've brought back. It's like a fat guy sunning himself in a speedo on his front lawn-- he has the right, but it won't make him popular with his neighboring community members. He should go grab a pair of Bermudas, and maybe head to the back yard. Or maybe it's nothing like that.

Anyway, I hope you reconsider.
 
Roy Munson said:
It's like a fat guy sunning himself in a speedo on his front lawn-- he has the right, but it won't make him popular with his neighboring community members. He should go grab a pair of Bermudas, and maybe head to the back yard. Or maybe it's nothing like that.
Click to expand...


Now that SAR made me laugh! :roflmao:
 
JohnC said:
If you were aiming to put me off this forum for life, you have succeeded.
Goodbye Cornsnakes . com
Click to expand...
That really doesn't seem like behavior I'd expect from someone old enough to have kept corns for 33 years. Do you really expect everyone to tap dance around your oversensitive ego for your entire life? :rolleyes:

Given your reaction to criticism by one person, I really find it hard to believe that this would be the only time you'd be throwing a hissy fit on the forums. I, for one, will not miss you. Buhbye. :wavey:
 
Serpwidgets said:
That really doesn't seem like behavior I'd expect from someone old enough to have kept corns for 33 years. Do you really expect everyone to tap dance around your oversensitive ego for your entire life? :rolleyes:

Given your reaction to criticism by one person, I really find it hard to believe that this would be the only time you'd be throwing a hissy fit on the forums. I, for one, will not miss you. Buhbye. :wavey:
Click to expand...

Ouch! Well, if you and I were cops, we know who'd play 'bad cop' in the interrogation room. :grin01:

I don't know why, but that wavey emoticon used in dismissive context always cracks me up. It's got what the French call a certain... I don't know what.
 
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