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Mystery Corn Update

S

spirit975

New member
Thought it was time i posted an update on this little chap. Still go no real idea of what he is but i just adore him, hense why it's gonna be picture heavy!!

His mother is a Caramel Stripe, his father an Amber. Neither have any known hets and the rest of the clutch were caramel, as expected. His mother had an early clutch to a Sunkissed......i feel he is either a fluke of nature or a Chimera, but either way he's stunning! I've been told by others that he is a stripe, a motley and everything in between. I intend to breed him back to his mother this year to see what happens.

If you look carefully you can see a faint stripe developing between his "saddles."
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Not sure where the confusion is. He looks just like a gorgeous caramel to me! The only thing slightly odd is the belly pattern, but it's present so it can't be a motley and most definitely is not a stripe. The belly pattern actually looks very much like my caramel Upper Keys with the sparse checks that are predominantly along the sides. But my caramel Upper Keys have much more yellow on the belly...at least at present. It may decrease as they get older.
 
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My goodness. Dunno what he is, but he is interestingly marked. If you can get that to breed true (whether it's line breeding like Abbott's Okeetees or a single gene trait like amel is) that would be way cool!
 
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Susan said:
Not sure where the confusion is. He looks just like a gorgeous caramel to me! The only thing slightly odd is the belly pattern, but it's present so it can't be a motley and most definitely is not a stripe. The belly pattern actually looks very much like my caramel Upper Keys with the sparse checks that are predominantly along the sides. But my caramel Upper Keys have much more yellow on the belly...at least at present. It may decrease as they get older.
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To be honest, i've never seen a "normal" caramel like him.:confused: The only snakes i've seen with his side stripes and back pattern are motleys, and as you say that's not possible due to the odd belly markings. His colour at hatching was certainly not caramel.

This is his sister, who i would class as a pretty caramel:

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That's definitely interesting. I first Motley, with abnormal striping down the sides. But with the clear belly pattern, it rules out that thought. Het blood red, or like Susan said, maybe Upper Keys might explain the checks, but that wouldn't explain (to me at least) the pattern/color, which is clearly far too different from the sibling to be "normal" variation. I'm definitely curious, and I suppose you can't rule out a new gene, so I look forward to the updates sure to follow!
 
I have absolutely no insight on what he is, but after looking at the comparison photos with his sister... to me it looks like his pattern just gave up. :p

Regardless, I think he's pretty neat!
 
What about this one being an amber? The mom may be het hypo and the father my not be an amber as thought and only het as well and just lighter colored. The odd pattaern to me is from the moms stripe gene this one being a het with extra strong markers. Just my novice opinion of what may be going on but hypo can be hard to discern.
 
Don't know what he is (since I'm a corn newbie), but he is gorgeous! And wow, I can't believe the difference from hatching to adult... crazy. :eek1:
 
My guess would be Dilute Caramel het motley.
And the hatch ling pics are deceptive, as it is in shed.
 
I think the "fluke" idea is on the nose. Females can double clutch fertile clutches with out being re-bred. The pattern and belly checks would be explainable if the mom was a mot and dad was a sunkissed. I've had females bred to two different males and have babies from both fathers. So it can happen.
 
bekers71 said:
I think the "fluke" idea is on the nose. Females can double clutch fertile clutches with out being re-bred. The pattern and belly checks would be explainable if the mom was a mot and dad was a sunkissed. I've had females bred to two different males and have babies from both fathers. So it can happen.
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True, but that would make him normal het sunkissed caramel stripe, (mum is stripe)which he isn't as i had 18 of those from this female in 08 and they all turned out as expected.:awcrap:
 
Yes, it does look like an aberrant motley with belly checks (has been known to happen but not quite that many checks), but only breeding trials will tell that. But the color, as both a hatchling and now, is caramel...typical caramel. It even matches the color of the caramel sibling you placed with it. The only difference you are seeing in color is the lack of black, typical of motley.
 
spirit975 said:
True, but that would make him normal het sunkissed caramel stripe, (mum is stripe)which he isn't as i had 18 of those from this female in 08 and they all turned out as expected.:awcrap:
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Like Susan said, he could be a different color caramel. Or if he is a normal het sunkissed caramel stripe that would explain things about his apperance. He looks het caramel by the coloring, sunkissed has an odd effect on stripe which would explain his weird pattering. I've hatched normal babies het for caramel and stripe. Some, not all, had the odd belly marks and the coloring of your guy. I would breed your male with the mom and with a sunkissed female. He's a pretty boy by the way. Forgot to mention that in my first post. :)
 
He could be a normal het sunkissed caramel and stripe, but then he looks different to the other 21 of these that hatched as they all looked like this.

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Susan i'm a little confused, you said in your first post that he's definitely not motley but then explain his colour as being typical of motley? If he's an abbarrant motley then that doesn't explain why i've never gotten motley out of many pairings from each parent that should have shown up if there was a het involved. If he's just a caramel that looks different, then he's still different as has been the question all along, and therefore not just a pretty caramel?

I'm honestly not being argumentative for the sake of it :eek: but although i'm not an expert, i am by no means a novice. I know that genetically he is at least a caramel het hypo stripe, but i have never seen another caramel like him, hence the confusion.
 
spirit975 said:
He could be a normal het sunkissed caramel and stripe, but then he looks different to the other 21 of these that hatched as they all looked like this.
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Thats a pretty baby too. Some times normals that carry hets can look different than others that carry the same genes. Maybe this one is just showing his better than the rest. Odd things can happen when the mom double clutches. Hope you don't mind but I'm going to show you one that happened to me.

In this link you see a clutch of babies from a Caramel Mot Stripe and a Normal Motley. Nothing but normal motleys. Or so I thought. http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68990&page=3

Mom double clutched on her own and laid 9 eggs. 8 went bad and 1 remained. This is what hatched out. The last picture is of the amel with the siblings that were hatched out almost 4 months earlier. So it actually showed that mom was not a motely but a cubed(stripe) and both parents were het amel.
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I am probably wrong and Susan is most likely right by saying it's a different color caramel. She's been doing this much longer than me. I'm just giving my 2 cents worth. LOL
 
I also say caramel. He looks a lot like the caramel I got from SMR, as far as coloration.

Susan is saying het motley because he looks to have strong motley influence due to the mother being a stripe. He is not a homozygous motley, but is het motley and that can still influence color and/or pattern.
 
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