Rabies

[pridecity]

I was watching Old Yeller today and that got me on an interest in rabies. So, with my curious mind, I decided to look up rabies in humans. I wanted videos. It's from a medical standpoint, not an "ooh look at that" sort of freak show type thing. So, after Googling and You-Tubing, I found a few videos of patients in other countries and a few tributes from an organization about people who had died from hydrophobia (rabies). Then I came across a few videos about rabid animals. I save a few for later viewing (hate to buffer).

A thought came to mind: Can reptiles get rabies? According to my research, only mammals can. However, it doesn't specify if only land mammals can. Anyone ever hear of a rabid seal or some such?

Then another thought crossed my brain. I don't want to offend anyone here because I know that several people either own or care for outdoor cats. However, I thought I would raise the question. How many people who have outdoor cats contract rabies? It makes perfect sense to me that if you let your cat out enough, it could very possibly pick up the disease. Of course, if your cat is allowed inside and outside, that means your risk for contracting the disease is increased that much more.

Am I the only one to think about things like this? I know that I've had outdoor/indoor cats but it wasn't exactly my choice (little kid at the time). I've seen foxes, skunks, possums, raccoons, and bats in my neighborhoods. I've come across a coyote once or twice and even have pictures of a fox that was probably rabid. In addition, just this past year I was almost run over by a red fox who didn't see me until he was right next to me. I stood three feet from him while I tried to figure out what he wanted to do. He decided to watch traffic until he could cross. Great experience but it could have easily ended with me in the hospital.

After watching these videos for most of the day, I've come to realize how ignorant people are of things like this. I saw several videos of people actually approaching these animals that were in the "dumb" stage. Everything from deer to raccoons to dogs. It makes me wonder why there are only 50,000 cases worldwide every year.

On the plus side, I now will stop wondering if my fatigue is caused by the lizard bite I got in November. Short story on that is that my WC agama bit me in November and starting December I've stopped sleeping on a regular basis. That's another story though...

-End Rant-

 

[reptile65]

I agree about the outdoor cat thing. There are many other reasons I'm against letting cats roam freely outside, but one main issue is the increased risk for rabies and other nasty diseases (like FIV and FeLV). There's a reason the rabies vaccine is required by law in most states (even if the animal isn't allowed outside). Just as a quick fun fact: The average lifespan for outdoor cats is around 3 years, while the average lifespan for indoor cats is around 15 years. Seems like a no-brainer to me...

 

[dionythicus]

Vaccinations make a big difference in letting any animal, dog or cat, go outside. If your pet is current on their shots, the likelihood of them contracting rabies is slim to none. There are animals immune to the vaccine itself, like skunks, which is why they are not allowed as pets in Washington.

Many people don't know that there is no way to test for rabies in an animal, except to sever the head and an examine the brain.

 

[pridecity]

Too true Dion. Looking at the brain is the only sure way. I just keep waiting to hear about a resistant strain of rabies; one not affected by the vaccine. It could happen.

 

[rexracer]

I agree about the outdoor cat thing. There are many other reasons I'm against letting cats roam freely outside, but one main issue is the increased risk for rabies and other nasty diseases (like FIV and FeLV). There's a reason the rabies vaccine is required by law in most states (even if the animal isn't allowed outside). Just as a quick fun fact: The average lifespan for outdoor cats is around 3 years, while the average lifespan for indoor cats is around 15 years. Seems like a no-brainer to me...

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but my family had outdoor cats all of my life, and they all lived past 12 years. We lived in California, Idaho, New York, Pennsylvania and here in Connecticut. Many of them made multiple moves, and we would keep them in the house for a couple of weeks until they got used to it, then they were in and out at will. One (seven toes), a stray we picked up, made the ride from Monroeville, PA ( Pittsburg suburb ) to Gibsonia, maybe 30 miles north, and he disappeared about a month after we moved. He was gone for 4 months, but my mom said that some of our former neighbors thought they had spotted him during that time. He came back skinny and beat up, looked like he got in a couple of fights, but he came back. We had 5 or 6 cats total (no more than 3 at a time) and the last one was finally put down when I was in my late 20's. He was missing a bunch of teeth, and arthritic, but had a healthy outdoor life and was either 14 or 16 years old.

 

[reptile65]

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but my family had outdoor cats all of my life, and they all lived past 12 years. We lived in California, Idaho, New York, Pennsylvania and here in Connecticut. Many of them made multiple moves, and we would keep them in the house for a couple of weeks until they got used to it, then they were in and out at will. One (seven toes), a stray we picked up, made the ride from Monroeville, PA ( Pittsburg suburb ) to Gibsonia, maybe 30 miles north, and he disappeared about a month after we moved. He was gone for 4 months, but my mom said that some of our former neighbors thought they had spotted him during that time. He came back skinny and beat up, looked like he got in a couple of fights, but he came back. We had 5 or 6 cats total (no more than 3 at a time) and the last one was finally put down when I was in my late 20's. He was missing a bunch of teeth, and arthritic, but had a healthy outdoor life and was either 14 or 16 years old.

Sounds like you got lucky.

 

[rexracer]

Sounds like you got lucky.

I don't know. I've lived all over the country, and met dozens of people with cats. 80% of the cats came and went as they pleased, and with the exception of the odd car strike, their cats all lived long lives. I have never met a person who's cat got rabies...even cats that commonly got in fights with raccoons and such. That's why I was wondering where you got the 3 year lifespan from. Maybe you could post a link?

 

[reptile65]

I don't know. I've lived all over the country, and met dozens of people with cats. 80% of the cats came and went as they pleased, and with the exception of the odd car strike, their cats all lived long lives. I have never met a person who's cat got rabies...even cats that commonly got in fights with raccoons and such. That's why I was wondering where you got the 3 year lifespan from. Maybe you could post a link?

I don't have the link to the info. I was quoting my boss (a veterinarian) who got the statistics from a study. Keep in mind this is an AVERAGE lifespan, which means there will certainly be those cats who live long and healthy lives, but when averaged out, the number is lower. Even if the numbers aren't correct, I wouldn't take the chance. But thats just my opinion.

 

[bitsy]

I wonder if the study took account of outdoor cats that are never ill, never see a vet and pass away quietly in their own homes at ripe old ages? My aunt has a farm and her outdoor cats seem to outlast the normal domestic indoor/outdoor ones that I've known.

After all, according to some AR people, captive reptiles live less than a year in captivity. You can "prove" an awful lot with stats, especially if they're quoted without knowing what they're based on!

 

[rexracer]

+1. The results can also get skewed by including all the feral cats and their litters. I imagine feral cats in big cities don't do really well, add in how many litters every year, and the mortality there...

 

[Hypancistrus]

I wonder if the study took account of outdoor cats that are never ill, never see a vet and pass away quietly in their own homes at ripe old ages? My aunt has a farm and her outdoor cats seem to outlast the normal domestic indoor/outdoor ones that I've known.

I think there's a HUGE difference between an outdoor cat on a farm or in a quiet suburban neighborhood and an outdoor cat in the city.

We live in a suburb of Baltimore city-- less than 1/2 mile from the city line-- and I would NEVER consider an outdoor cat as a possibility here. Too many horrible things can happen to them, ranging from getting hit by a car, contracting diseases like Feline Aids, being tortured by local thugs or picked up as bait by gangs looking to train their fighting dogs.

This doesn't even address the issues of an outdoor cat forcing itself on your neighbors in close quarters. I know many people in this area who have been gardening in the spring only to find that their garden has become a litter box for the neighbors cat. If I don't allow my dogs to wander about and I pick up their poop when they go in a public area, why would it be okay to allow my cats to wander about and go to bathroom wherever they want to?

It is the height of irresponsible pet ownership to allow your cat to wander freely in an area like this. Farms are one thing... but suburban and city areas are quite another.

 

[pridecity]

I'll put my input in on the lifespan thing. When I was 7-8 years old, my mother and I moved in with my grandparents. We lived in the city and had two neighbors with chickens. Our next door neighbor was zoned for farming and had chickens, ducks, geese, two goats, and probably more animals I didn't know about. They also had a dog named Moose. Then two doors down on the other side was a person who kept chickens.

My grandmother had a cat named Misty who was old when I first met her. She was put down at 19 years. She was allowed to go outside every so often to sit in the sun and never went very far because she was so old and sick. We brought two of our cats when we moved - Shelby and Trixie. Trixie never went outside but Shelby did the outside thing. She was declawed and still managed to climb and catch birds and mice. She always brought them back as gifts. Yum.

At any rate, she spent most of her time outside and one day my mother and grandmother saw the neighbor's dog Moose throwing her up in the air. She was all ready dead. Moose had played with her to death. We think she was after the chickens and Moose thought she was a play thing. She wasn't even five years old.

We also lost a small dog somehow. We don't know if she was caught by a fox or by Moose or just escaped never to be seen again. We were outside with her when she disappeared. We were in the garden and when it got dark, we realized she wasn't around. We looked everywhere, even in the pool thinking she drowned. We never heard any sound from her.

So, to sum up, we had one cat live to be 19 and not die outside. But we also had two young animals die because they were let outside. If Shelby was made an indoor cat, then she would never have gotten killed by a dog. I'd probably still have had her today, old and decrepit as she might be.

Some animals are lucky, a lot aren't.

 

[rexracer]

I'll put my input in on the lifespan thing. When I was 7-8 years old, my mother and I moved in with my grandparents. We lived in the city and had two neighbors with chickens. Our next door neighbor was zoned for farming and had chickens, ducks, geese, two goats, and probably more animals I didn't know about. They also had a dog named Moose. Then two doors down on the other side was a person who kept chickens.

My grandmother had a cat named Misty who was old when I first met her. She was put down at 19 years. She was allowed to go outside every so often to sit in the sun and never went very far because she was so old and sick. We brought two of our cats when we moved - Shelby and Trixie. Trixie never went outside but Shelby did the outside thing. She was declawed and still managed to climb and catch birds and mice. She always brought them back as gifts. Yum.

At any rate, she spent most of her time outside and one day my mother and grandmother saw the neighbor's dog Moose throwing her up in the air. She was all ready dead. Moose had played with her to death. We think she was after the chickens and Moose thought she was a play thing. She wasn't even five years old.

We also lost a small dog somehow. We don't know if she was caught by a fox or by Moose or just escaped never to be seen again. We were outside with her when she disappeared. We were in the garden and when it got dark, we realized she wasn't around. We looked everywhere, even in the pool thinking she drowned. We never heard any sound from her.

So, to sum up, we had one cat live to be 19 and not die outside. But we also had two young animals die because they were let outside. If Shelby was made an indoor cat, then she would never have gotten killed by a dog. I'd probably still have had her today, old and decrepit as she might be.

Some animals are lucky, a lot aren't.

That's terrible what happened to your cat. The first thing I thought was that it may not have happened if the cat was not de-clawed. Claws are pretty much a cats only protection, and a good swipe across the nose might have told the dog to back off. We had a female calico that probably only weighed 10 pounds, but she would never back down from a fight. I once watched her ride a shepherd out of out back yard and half a block down the street.

 

[Outcast]

That's terrible what happened to your cat. The first thing I thought was that it may not have happened if the cat was not de-clawed. Claws are pretty much a cats only protection, and a good swipe across the nose might have told the dog to back off. We had a female calico that probably only weighed 10 pounds, but she would never back down from a fight. I once watched her ride a shepherd out of out back yard and half a block down the street.

My sister had a cat that stalked the neighbors Lab/Rottie mix... He was a big baby to begin with, but he was terrified of my little sis's cat...lol

 

[pridecity]

I miss Shelby. She was a good cat. I never agreed with letting cats outside without someone watching. Though, last winter my cat Cassie kept trying to get outside. I think she couldn't figure out what the white stuff on the ground was. So I put her on a leash and dropped her in the snow. That stopped her curiosity pretty quick.

 

[Shiari]

I work at a cat-only hospital. We usually have 3 or 4 calls each year of "a coyote ate my cat". And about that same number of "My cat was hit by a car". We usually see two or three cat-fight abscesses a month *at least*... the vast majority of which were incurred by indoor-outdoor cats. And of course, that also goes for those cats that are FIV or FeLV positive. Our longest lived patients, on average, are indoor-only or 'outdoor supervised'. Probably at least 75% of them, and I don't think *any* of the 20 yrs + cats were equal indoor-outdoor.

 

[reptile65]

I work at a cat-only hospital. We usually have 3 or 4 calls each year of "a coyote ate my cat". And about that same number of "My cat was hit by a car". We usually see two or three cat-fight abscesses a month *at least*... the vast majority of which were incurred by indoor-outdoor cats. And of course, that also goes for those cats that are FIV or FeLV positive. Our longest lived patients, on average, are indoor-only or 'outdoor supervised'. Probably at least 75% of them, and I don't think *any* of the 20 yrs + cats were equal indoor-outdoor.

This is exactly why I would never consider letting my cats be indoor/outdoor cats. I also work at an animal hospital and I've seen WAY too many bad things happen. The owners are responsible for the health and well-being of the cat, so why wouldn't you do everything in your power to keep the cat safe? You can eliminate so may risk factors by keeping your cat indoors, so why take a chance? Also, in my opinion, the whole reason for owning cats is so they can be a family member and you can interact with them on a daily basis, so it doesn't make sense why someone would get a cat just to let it roam freely.

 

[Shiari]

In a way, it's a little like cohabbing. Why take the risk? I will admit, there are *some* cats that cannot be indoor only, but they are exceedingly few. And those ones are the cats that literally throw themselves at windows and claw through screens. I adopted a 2 year old former outdoor-only cat five years ago. He's indoor only and *loving* it.

 

[rexracer]

In a way, it's a little like cohabbing. Why take the risk? I will admit, there are *some* cats that cannot be indoor only, but they are exceedingly few. And those ones are the cats that literally throw themselves at windows and claw through screens. I adopted a 2 year old former outdoor-only cat five years ago. He's indoor only and *loving* it.

I can't agree with your first statement. There is no upside for the snake in co-habbing. There are many upsides for cats in being allowed to go outdoors. I would agree that it's not a good idea in the city, but where there is nature and open space, cats should be allowed out. I know people who have dogs that are locked up in cages most of the time. I don't agree with that either. It's a quality of life thing. Many things that improve the quality of life for many of us have the potential to shorten our lives. Those same things also have the potential to lengthen, and improve our lives.

 

[Shiari]

So... catching Panleuk, FIV, FeLV, getting abscesses, intestinal parasites, getting run over by cars, mauled by dogs and raccoons and eaten by coyotes are all quality of life? Mayhaps I'll go and ask Paul how much his 'quality of life' was enhanced by being an outdoor cat as he was laying beside the road for three days after being hit by a car, then dragging himself home with massive degloving injuries that were full of maggots and gangrene, months of debriding and bandage changes and ending up with one limb amputated.

What upsides are there aside from not having to clean a litter box as much? I have 4 happy, sassy, indoor-only cats. They certainly aren't acting deprived as they sit on my lap, my bed, and tease my dog.