• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

My Corn Is "Potty Trained"

Carinata said:
There is wiggle room for any rule, you're being overly picky. Everyone can see this. I was born at night, but not last night. And line breeding for temperament is really pointless. There is no way to line breed behavior. It is not possible. There is no genetic anything that will be reproducible. It's like a paradox in most snakes.
Click to expand...

That is a complete load. MANY animals are line-bred for temperament, with tremendous success. Genetics play a huge role in temperament.
 
Shiari said:
*coughcoughwrongcoughcough*


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox


Temperament is heritable.

And saying you were born at night describes a single situation. We are saying "you were born at night". You are saying "everyone is born at night."
Click to expand...

Foxes and mammals are different than snakes. Your a hypocrite, telling me I shouldn't be speaking about other snakes and your talking about foxes? I mean give me a break, a fox and a snake are so genetically different, it's not even relevant. And when I say I was born at night, means I'm not as dumb as you think I am, and I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
 
ceduke said:
That is a complete load. MANY animals are line-bred for temperament, with tremendous success. Genetics play a huge role in temperament.
Click to expand...

Show me a snake that is line bred for temperament. Any reptile for that matter. They don't have the genetic capacity. Same reason we don't see albino tarantulas. There isn't the genetic variation.
 
No one has TRIED to line breed for temperament before. You said it could NOT be done. I showed you it HAS been done, albeit in another species, once again PROVING your blanket statement false.

I give up on you. I'm placing you on ignore. You refute all evidence shown to you, because you know so much more than anyone.
 
Carinata said:
Show me a snake that is line bred for temperament. Any reptile for that matter. They don't have the genetic capacity. Same reason we don't see albino tarantulas. There isn't the genetic variation.
Click to expand...

The fact that it hasn't been done doesn't mean genetics don't affect temperament. That's the silliest argument I've ever heard. There are no jet black corn snakes either, but people are working on it.
 
Shiari said:
No one has TRIED to line breed for temperament before. You said it could NOT be done. I showed you it HAS been done, albeit in another species, once again PROVING your blanket statement false.

I give up on you. I'm placing you on ignore. You refute all evidence shown to you, because you know so much more than anyone.
Click to expand...
Ok, goodbye. This will make my life so much easier. Jesus Christ I swear you're the biggest hypocrite I have ever met in my entire life.
ceduke said:
The fact that it hasn't been done doesn't mean genetics don't affect temperament. That's the silliest argument I've ever heard. There are no jet black corn snakes either, but people are working on it.
Click to expand...
Reptiles, don't have the mental capacity to learn and to understand like mammals. It would be so very difficult to line breed for temperament in an animal that thrives on instinct, that has gone unchanged for millions of years.
 
Carinata said:
Ok, goodbye. This will make my life so much easier. Jesus Christ I swear you're the biggest hypocrite I have ever met in my entire life.

Reptiles, don't have the mental capacity to learn and to understand like mammals. It would be so very difficult to line breed for temperament in an animal that thrives on instinct, that has gone unchanged for millions of years.
Click to expand...

Basic temperament has nothing to do with capacity to learn, reason, whatever. Selecting animals whose instincts don't cause them to shy from handling, strike, or musk, and breeding them to other animals with a calm temperament is quite likely to result in a line of calmer animals. Time will tell with this project, but I'm very certain that in a few generations Megan is going ot have some really nice animals.

I also call BS on the statement that snakes can't learn. My Indigo knows the difference between feeding time and handling time. Not just because of the smell of prey, but because I approach him differently depending on what's going to happen next. They can be conditioned to certain responses basedon various stimulus in the environment. Isn't that learning?
 
ceduke said:
Basic temperament has nothing to do with capacity to learn, reason, whatever. Selecting animals whose instincts don't cause them to shy from handling, strike, or musk, and breeding them to other animals with a calm temperament is quite likely to result in a line of calmer animals. Time will tell with this project, but I'm very certain that in a few generations Megan is going ot have some really nice animals.

I also call BS on the statement that snakes can't learn. My Indigo knows the difference between feeding time and handling time. Not just because of the smell of prey, but because I approach him differently depending on what's going to happen next. They can be conditioned to certain responses basedon various stimulus in the environment. Isn't that learning?
Click to expand...

Cribos, Elapids, and some Old World Ratsnakes do show a learned behaviors. But in general snakes are not smart, I should have added that in there. In general snakes don't learn. Snakes are creatures of instinct, and instinct takes over line breeding. They instinctively react with biting, musking, and flailing. It's not going to change. I am willing to bet in a few years, Meg will successfully prove that a few years of line breeding doesn't hold water to millions of years of instinct.
 
Given how few generations it takes to make a HUGE difference in other species, I'm looking forward to the results of this project. I've been wanting to start a "nasty corn" counter-project, but I'd never be able to get rid of the offspring! I suppose my Indigo would eat very well...
 
ceduke said:
Given how few generations it takes to make a HUGE difference in other species, I'm looking forward to the results of this project. I've been wanting to start a "nasty corn" counter-project, but I'd never be able to get rid of the offspring! I suppose my Indigo would eat very well...
Click to expand...
I can hook you up with the female for that project LOL
 
Destructive to the species? How do you figure that breeding for color is not destructive but breeding for temperament is?
 
ceduke said:
Destructive to the species? How do you figure that breeding for color is not destructive but breeding for temperament is?
Click to expand...

because with color you're changing a physical characteristic, a Black Pastel Butter Ghost Ball Python is still a Ball Python. Still acts like a Ball. But some tamed down line of snake (if even possible), erases the personality of the snake and takes away it's identity! Now I also want to mention, I couldn't read the article Meg linked me to, but there is an article out there by a US scientist stating that a species of snake could find it's way out of a trap door, but upon closer inspection of the article he stated they ripped the tape covering the doors off with their teeth, so I hope that isn't the article....
 
Nonsense. Does breeding for more docile horses make them any less of a horse? The temperament of the animal (be it fox, horse, snake, or tarantula) is not erased, just altered! Furthermore, weren't you just arguing that snakes only have instincts, not personality? How could selective breeding erase what they don't have?
 
ceduke said:
Nonsense. Does breeding for more docile horses make them any less of a horse? The temperament of the animal (be it fox, horse, snake, or tarantula) is not erased, just altered! Furthermore, weren't you just arguing that snakes only have instincts, not personality? How coulr selective breeding erase what they don't have?
Click to expand...

Some snake are more aggressive than others. By nature they are programed to behave a certain way. Natricines tend to musk and bite a lot. I don't think a Garter would be a Garter without the way they behave. It's instinct. I was just reading a thread on an Aussie Python site about a guy who had exceptionally nice JCPs, the babies despite efforts to line breed were all snappy.
 
Carinata said:
Some snake are more aggressive than others. By nature they are programed to behave a certain way. Natricines tend to musk and bite a lot. I don't think a Garter would be a Garter without the way they behave. It's instinct. I was just reading a thread on an Aussie Python site about a guy who had exceptionally nice JCPs, the babies despite efforts to line breed were all snappy.
Click to expand...


Regardless of whether you like it or not, a placid garter WOULD still be a garter. Some people love scaleless snakes, some hate them. People are still going to line-breed for the trait! I fail to see how this project is any different!
 
ceduke said:
Regardless of whether you like it or not, a placid garter WOULD still be a garter. Some people love scaleless snakes, some hate them. People are still going to line-breed for the trait! I fail to see how this project is any different!
Click to expand...

So far all line bred traits are color or pattern related.....
 
ceduke said:
Scaless is neither color nor pattern related.
Click to expand...

Scaleless is a genetic trait. Recessive in Texas Ratsnakes and Cornsnakes. Unproven in several other species, but assumed recessive. We have 80+ Scaleless at work.

EDIT: Proven Co-dominant in Bearded Dragons (forgot that part)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top