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Since When was animal abuse legal?

Lyion said:
While they are under the law, people often ignore abuse to any animals besides dogs, cats and horses. Most only care about our furry friends, rather than our scaly ones :(. Even so, cows seems to get less attention as most people consider them to be food and "it doesn't matter what happens to them, they're going to be killed anywayd"
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I think you would like the movie, "The Temple Grandin Story". It is about how a woman with Autism revolutionized the Cattle Industry. Things were much worse than they are now. Though I do agree that cattle seem to get pushed to the side, along with chickens, and other food animals.
 
Outcast said:
I think you would like the movie, "The Temple Grandin Story". It is about how a woman with Autism revolutionized the Cattle Industry. Things were much worse than they are now. Though I do agree that cattle seem to get pushed to the side, along with chickens, and other food animals.
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I'll certainly look into that movie. In my belief, people should live on fish. While I find nothing wrong with eating meat, fish is healthier, more in quantity and not domestic. I have a hard time eating anything domesticated or of high intelligence, so I never eat pig for that reason.
 
Fish is meat, dude. I've never understood why some health advocates separate fish from all other animals. They are still an animal and their flesh is muscle tissue like any other.

As far as the attention paid to different animals, it's all about culture, familiarity and anthropomorphization. We project our own selves onto certain animals that we identify with. Mammals are especially this, but even inside that category are vast differences. Reptiles are vastly different and so there is much less of this. People talk about their dog being sad or happy or whatever, but that is projection. We are identifying their emotion by interpreting their behavior as if they were a human being. So we look at the sloping brows and relaxed muzzle and think they are sad.

When you look at a cow, they are not so easily anthropomorphized. So they don't get the same attention. Snakes and fish seem completely alien and so they fall even further down the list.

Ultimately, whether or not animals feel emotion is not at issue. It's all about the emotions we project onto those animals and the way the general public interprets those emotions.
 
I wonder why I am comfortable eating virtually anything with hooves, but could not would not eat any reptile or amphibian. Or small bird.
 
I can agree with you to a certain extent but dogs CLEARLY have emotion. Whether it is to the extent as human emotion.. who knows.
It might not all be displayed in human characteristics like you stated above, but in stance, tail, ears, and over all demeanor - dogs are very much emotional creatures. I can clearly see it in my dog when I scold him for getting into something he shouldn't. Even after the fact, he becomes obviously downhearted and tries in all of the ways he can, to emote to me that he is sorry and wants forgiveness.
I've raised both cattle and horses for most of my life and this is not the case, these creatures are much more reactionary in the 'flight or fight' manner.
Although, I agree that people tend to place animals on the same emotional scale with us, when this is just not the case.

I enjoy my meat and I'm a hunter. I also like rodeos but I think people need to use common sense when performing with animals.
 
Nanci said:
I wonder why I am comfortable eating virtually anything with hooves, but could not would not eat any reptile or amphibian. Or small bird.
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Nanci, I am about as southern mountain type folk as you can get and have eaten quite a few things most look at and go no way too cute or whatever. And I can not think of reptile or amphibian on the menu. Quail do make a great stuffing for thanksgiving.
 
Alligator is actually very good if it was farm raised, fed a specific diet and slaughtered a certain way.
There's a restaurant near Daytona.. here:
http://www.jtseafoodshack.com/

The alligator here is lightly breaded with an amazing citrus based dip solely for the gator. I think, one of the best meats I've ever tasted, has been gator at this restaurant.
 
Tara80 said:
Alligator is actually very good if it was farm raised, fed a specific diet and slaughtered a certain way.
There's a restaurant near Daytona.. here:
http://www.jtseafoodshack.com/

The alligator here is lightly breaded with an amazing citrus based dip solely for the gator. I think, one of the best meats I've ever tasted, has been gator at this restaurant.
Click to expand...


Yeah forgot gator, but none around here to try to fry up. Ky has a very strict policy on crocodilians. But I say lets all go to Cajun land and pig out crawfish, gator and gumbo. Laissez les Bon Temps Roulez
 
Nanci said:
I'm sure alligator tastes fine, I just don't feel right eating it.
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It's ok Nanci, we can slow roast some bufflalo and chow down on burnt ends.
I think should be more the point of the whole thread here.
Don't jump on someone's beliefs or way of doing things all the time you have to take in account of where, when and how they grew up.
 
so I grew working on family dairy farms, hunting, fishing... I am a carnivore for sure. I have raised many kinds of meat and killed it for the table, but I can't eat a rabbit, even if I'm sure I'ld love it. When I was a kid my Dad cooked dinner, rabbit just before i went to eat it he said 'where is your cat', that did when I see skinned rabbit all I see is cat, crazy I know.
I can appreciate anyone preference in the food they put in their mouth. BUT I don't think a lot of people realize how it is raised, fed, treated... I'm sure many would say castration of a cow or pig without anesthesia very cruel, but for the rancher/farmer the best most efficient way, a fact or animal cruelty.
Even a fish has to be caught and killed or die some amount of suffering is natural. Do I think animals are aware as in our awareness of pain and dieing, I don't know? I do no whenever I have killed an animal I do thank it for it's sacrifice and apologize for any suffering I may have caused. Then I put it on the grill and eat with gusto.
 
crotalis40741 said:
It's ok Nanci, we can slow roast some bufflalo and chow down on burnt ends.
I think should be more the point of the whole thread here.
Don't jump on someone's beliefs or way of doing things all the time you have to take in account of where, when and how they grew up.
Click to expand...

What one is surrounded with growing up seems often entirely acceptable and the way things should be. I was in my thirty's when I started questioning much of what I grew up around, and have dumped many 'traditional beliefs', and developed new traditions which suit me. In retrospect, many persons never change much about their ways of doing things, especially if strictness was employed during their adolescent developMental years. But "just" because something has been done isn't a reason to keep on doing it.

"Just" is an abbreviation of the word "Justice" in this instance, utilized to "self justify" that something wrong I have done in the past is excusable.

I suppose there's a certain amount of fear that doing something differently, or thinking in ways different from one's parental figures, will somehow be interpreted as 'disrespectful'. Yet, how can any one develop to their full potential without trying new things, including new ways of thinking about traditional values? Would our parents not want us to progress and surpass their understanding of how things are in this world? If we don't, then we won't be able to make the world a better place than the one they knew. To me, that would be disrespectful to parents.

Do I like factory farms? Hormone laden fast food? Antibiotic enhanced chicken eggs? Crawdads? Having food on the table during tough times (Hoover chicken, aka Ibis, or Chelonian, depending on one's geographical location)...

http://www.therealfoodlabel.com/

So what is "real food"? If a lab created piglet is loaded up with hormones and antibiotics and allowed to run around free range and eventually eaten, is it organic? If the organic piglet is delivered to the grocery store in a petroleum powered vehicle and wrapped in a styrofoam tray, shrunk wrapped in plastic, is it organic? Is it "Real"?

There is no such thing as F1 Organic food, unless it's taken from the wild by a person who walks to get it and walks to take it home. Their home is a cave. It is not a man-made structure, unless it was constructed pre-electricity/pre-petroleum days. Cook on fire, not the kind piped in from elsewhere.

The only thing most people can hope to do anymore is to control how large their carbon footprint is.
 
Nanci said:
I wonder why I am comfortable eating virtually anything with hooves, but could not would not eat any reptile or amphibian. Or small bird.
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I've eaten frog legs before, and they were OK. I tried gator tail, but it was too rubbery in texture for my tastes.

I guess the hungrier you are, and the less options you have, the more cavalier you would become about what exactly it is you would be willing to eat. Heck, I won't eat spinach or green beans because I have LOTS of other choices available. :D
 
dave partington said:
What one is surrounded with growing up seems often entirely acceptable and the way things should be. I was in my thirty's when I started questioning much of what I grew up around, and have dumped many 'traditional beliefs', and developed new traditions which suit me. In retrospect, many persons never change much about their ways of doing things, especially if strictness was employed during their adolescent developMental years. But "just" because something has been done isn't a reason to keep on doing it.

"Just" is an abbreviation of the word "Justice" in this instance, utilized to "self justify" that something wrong I have done in the past is excusable.

I suppose there's a certain amount of fear that doing something differently, or thinking in ways different from one's parental figures, will somehow be interpreted as 'disrespectful'. Yet, how can any one develop to their full potential without trying new things, including new ways of thinking about traditional values? Would our parents not want us to progress and surpass their understanding of how things are in this world? If we don't, then we won't be able to make the world a better place than the one they knew. To me, that would be disrespectful to parents.

Do I like factory farms? Hormone laden fast food? Antibiotic enhanced chicken eggs? Crawdads? Having food on the table during tough times (Hoover chicken, aka Ibis, or Chelonian, depending on one's geographical location)...

http://www.therealfoodlabel.com/

So what is "real food"? If a lab created piglet is loaded up with hormones and antibiotics and allowed to run around free range and eventually eaten, is it organic? If the organic piglet is delivered to the grocery store in a petroleum powered vehicle and wrapped in a styrofoam tray, shrunk wrapped in plastic, is it organic? Is it "Real"?

There is no such thing as F1 Organic food, unless it's taken from the wild by a person who walks to get it and walks to take it home. Their home is a cave. It is not a man-made structure, unless it was constructed pre-electricity/pre-petroleum days. Cook on fire, not the kind piped in from elsewhere.

The only thing most people can hope to do anymore is to control how large their carbon footprint is.
Click to expand...

Actually people get caught up too much in their own marketing labels without really understand what the heck they are talking about. Things like "all natural", "organic", etc....

A while back Connie and I were walking through a mall and a sales girl pulled Connie aside for a sales pitch for some face cream. So she starts applying something around Connie's eyes and I told her to cease, asking what was in that cream. The girl looked shocked and said "But it's ALL organic!" I said "So? Dog crap is all organic too, but I wouldn't want you to smear it onto my wife's face."
 
this is kind of off topic, but I just want to say~ I think we should all be grateful we live in a country where we get the option to pick & choose what we want to eat or not eat.You know this is a country of plenty when people can choose what kind of meat we want to eat or whether we want to eat meat at all. I'm going to sound like the mean guy here,but if it came down to it & things weren't so nice for us anymore,I would feed my family whatever food was available to us & not feel bad if it was mammal,reptile or fish,I would be grateful to have food to give my family...just sayin'...
 
Having grown up on a farm with an additional 75 acres of woodland, I can say I've had quite a number of critters that have been kept and treated as pets and at the same time, I've eaten (or at least tasted) many of those same species plus many more. The first 3 pigs my parents raised were named after myself, my sister and my brother. They were well taken care of and lovingly spoiled. And all but my mother enjoyed them just as much upon their return from the slaughter house all wrapped up in paper and put in the freezer. (My Mom did eat every other pig we raised. She just had a problem with those 3.) Wild game needs to be treated and prepared properly for I no longer care for the heavy gamey taste. But I have eaten emu, buffalo, moose, elk, wild boar, quail, dove, rabbit, venison, squirrel, shark, gator, frog legs and even rattlesnake and loved every morsel.

I've also seen many rodeos in my lifetime and not a single animal has ever been injured that I was aware of. I do have to say that I have NOT viewed the video (but I can imagine it) as someone has changed either the password or the name of the You Tube account and I cannot access the video. And having taken care of many a cow and steer, even "mugging" a few, they're not that fragile and quite capable of handling whatever we humans can dish out in any rodeo.
 
Outcast said:
I think you would like the movie, "The Temple Grandin Story". It is about how a woman with Autism revolutionized the Cattle Industry. Things were much worse than they are now. Though I do agree that cattle seem to get pushed to the side, along with chickens, and other food animals.
Click to expand...

I am fascinated by Temple Grandin. My animal behavior professor I had a few years back (Patricia McConnell) knows her and so talked about her a bit and some of her work. Interesting stuff.
 
I eat farm raised animals and garden grown veggies. The men in my family all hunt deer, turkey, quail, squirrel, and bear. We skin it and freeze it and eat on it year round. There is nothing I love more than deer jerky!
 
Mods- seriously, I personally have been publicly crucified in the past while making a departure thread(and not a single infraction/ban to my name- just a single misunderstanding to which my explanation was not accepted). Others too, have suffered the same for a deal less.

Lavender crossed far more lines than most people I know that have been banned.
I placed the git in ignore list but people still quote her/him/whatever and I can still see ignorant remarks like the one made on abortion.
Repeated, infantile attempts to rile people up.
If I recall, this wasn't democratic society- I don't see a reason to give voice to anyone with offensive ideas. Would it be alright if someone spoke for the destruction of the US? Pro Natzi maybe?

I admit that calling everyone heathens and quoting the bible does have a more comical edge to it... but I think that in all fairness, rules should be applied to everyone in the same way.

I admire leniency... I do, but if so many people agree that a certain person's presence is undesirable, I can't see why such leniency is given when others, who were far less offensive, were treated with far less patience and understanding.
 
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