executive order 3/16/2012

[beautifullywild77]

Also, a new thread specifically about veterans is liable to be better in terms of raising awareness than a few posts in the middle of another thread. I suggested that because she'd get better traction, not because I have a problem with thread hijacking (It should be fairly obvious that I don't).

I mentioned it in a few posted along with many others views people believe are important. I got through to a few Americans, so in reality it was helpful!

 

[beautifullywild77]

Are you kidding Nova? The first person the derail the thread lecturing someone else about starting a new thread. I, as the thread OP, didn't ask you to start your own thread maybe you can show Stephenie the same courtesy.

Thank you Todd.

 

[Carinata]

I mentioned it in a few posted along with many others views people believe are important. I got through to a few Americans, so in reality it was helpful!

You sure got through to me. I knew about some suicides but 18 a day is insane. I can't believe the media doesn't report on it.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

Your overall tone was insulting. Much like mine was in some of the original posts on this thread.

Actually, the tone was more directed at the silence on the part of most Americans than it was insulting to the actual veterans.


EDIT: At least, that's how I interpreted it.

 

[Carinata]

Actually, the tone was more directed at the silence on the part of most Americans than it was insulting to the actual veterans.

That may be what you interpreted, but it's not what I interpreted. That's problem with internet forums :laugh:

 

[Christen]

Some men will never leave active duty no matter what. My uncle is on his 24th year of service in the Army. I think he would stay longer if his wife would let him. LOL some are just career soldiers. They are starting units for wounded soldiers so that they can be retrained and be able to stay in. I am lucky Mark got out of active duty. He said he wasn't going to put me through that life anymore than he had to. So he joined the reserves and here we are.

No some don't, she is tough to want to go through it again. My Uncle has been active for 30 years? I think? He is a CW5, come on, he has no where else to go and he continues to stay on. So she new darn well what she was getting into but she also served herself so I think she understands the need he has to stay in.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

That may be what you interpreted, but it's not what I interpreted. That's problem with internet forums :laugh:

I'm just having a hard time finding anywhere that he insulted the veterans...

Are you sure you really want to advocate this position? Because I'm sure there's lots of people who can come up with another tragedy more horrific than the suicide rates among veterans in order to advocate turning a blind eye to the suicide rates among veterans. This isn't an insult, this is fact. There are lots of tragedies worse than those suicides. Are the suicides horrible? Yes. But there are things worse than that going on in the world, and even our country. To me, this was directed at the people who sit idly by.

Of course, what are you doing on an internet forum while this is going on? If the rest of us are so terrible for debating a rights issue that directly affects 52% of the population and is a major difference between each party, then are you terrible for reading it? Or for participating in this forum at all?

Honestly, I find it fascinating that many people here are flipping out over losing rights, and yet advocate silence on some of the most important rights issues American has faced in decades. This is more than about abortion. There is a sustained campaign in the US to marginalize women.
The previous two paragraphs are about the abortion debate, not veterans.

If you want to raise awareness about the veteran suicide rate, than I suggest you start a new thread about it. If you want to complain that people are posting to an internet forum instead of volunteering for difference organizations that help veterans, well, then what are you doing here at all, then?
This is about the silence of the general public, not an insult to the veterans.

 

[beautifullywild77]

No some don't, she is tough to want to go through it again. My Uncle has been active for 30 years? I think? He is a CW5, come on, he has no where else to go and he continues to stay on. So she new darn well what she was getting into but she also served herself so I think she understands the need he has to stay in.

Some people just have that drive in them. It is a hard life but it is also a rewarding. I have never served but if Mark had chose to stay in and continue to serve, I would of stood by his side til the end.

 

[Carinata]

To me it sounded insulting. Not to insult you or get a flame war going but by saying "Oh there are worse tragedies.", it sounds like what I was saying about social issues not being the main focus of this election ( I have no problem openly stating that I feel the economy is a more important issue, as it effects everyone), that I got jumped on for? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Again not trying to start crap again.

 

[beautifullywild77]

Robbie I did find offense is the question

Are you sure you really want to advocate this position?

As well with the answer

Because I'm sure there's lots of people who can come up with another tragedy more horrific than the suicide rates among veterans in order to advocate turning a blind eye to the suicide rates among veterans

The reason is because two posts or so above the Veteran's post, I talked about Child abuse and Child murderers. That perhaps could be considered more horrific than the suicide rate among veterans but never did I say it was more important than any else that was talked about in this thread.

And as Tsst pointed out. Nova_C derailed from the OP, so telling me I should make another thread was rather rude and insulting.

Advocating for Veterans isn't the only thing I believe. I have worked with Plan Parenthood. (I believe it is a woman's body, it is her choice) I have worked with Parent's reaching out (advocating for special needs students. I constantly do so). I have also worked with Child abuse awareness in my community.

 

[beautifullywild77]

But I should add that Nova_C did nothing to insult veterans as a group. The offense that was taken or the insult that I perceived, was towards myself..

 

[Nova_C]

It seems I wasn't clear.

Wild77, you said:

Or how about our VETERANS? They are returning home from war and we are losing 18 per day. PER DAY due to suicides. Where is the outcry in that? Those politicians in Washington are sending these young people to war but doing nothing for them when they get home. Can you get that through your head? 18 per day! It is sickening to sit here and listening to you guys complain and bicker back and forth just for the sake of proving which side of the middle is right and better and more just.

This is clearly a very important issue to you. This is something I understand, however, you said it was 'sickening' that other people were discussing issues that were important to them. I know you want to raise awareness about veterans, and that's why I suggested you start a new thread to do it. I have no doubt there are many people avoiding this thread and by posting here you may be missing an opportunity. I did not mean to be offensive when I made that suggestion.

However, when you describe the debate others have about their own priorities as 'sickening', you basically said that they should just ignore what they think is important and focus on what you think is important. The reason I asked if you really want to advocate that position is because of how easily people turn a blind eye to veterans. More than suicide, there are a ton of issues affecting them, from poverty, mental illness, broken families and depression, society likes to sweep all this under the rug because it doesn't fit the warrior stereotype and forces people to acknowledge that sending young men and women off to fight a war for any reason carries grave consequences. It's not important enough to be a front and center issue because they think so many other thinks are more important. The exact same sort of behaviour that you encouraged.

It's possible to care about more than one thing. The goal you have is a noble one, and the issues facing veterans are ones that not enough people care about. I encourage and applaud your attempts to change that, but please do not demean the beliefs of others who find women's rights to be a very, very important issue.

 

[beautifullywild77]

I said

It is sickening to sit here and listening to you guys complain and bicker back and forth just for the sake of proving which side of the middle is right and better and more just.

Let me make it more clear... It is sickening to me that people will argue that democrats are wrong but republicans are right and visa versa. I, in NO WAY, meant that one issue was more important then others. Considering this thread had taken many different turns, I was bringing up other issues that were just as important.

 

[Ricky87]

Firstly (because this *needs* to be said) Trayvon Martin's murder had a little more than something to do with race...Who is somebody to prognosticate the mind-state of George Zimmerman and say he was simply a do-good, by the books citizen. **He shot and killed a 16 year old boy who was armed with Skittles and an Ice Tea**...He (Zimmerman) was never tested for drugs or alcohol even though the 911 dispatcher said he sounded drunk and told him not to follow the boy. It's blatant racism and even though it wasn't the police who killed him, it is them who chose to not follow protocol and who let a man who committed a hate-crime walk free. I'm all for veterans welfare and by all means they deserve it, but so do the 16 year old boys who die violently for nothing other than "looking suspicious".

As for the posts about women's rights, I totally agree with Shiari and Nova C...There's no denying that abortion is immorally performed on occasion, but outlawing it goes against any freedom we expect to have in this country. Women and men are equally responsible and should carry the burden of whatever decision they make regarding abortion. Only they know if it's right and if it isn't than they will have to live with the consequences for their entire lives.

Now, as for the OP...I've heard about this as well, but like Nova said - it's something only a small group of people are seeing as foul. A majority don't seem to alarmed and since Republicans are clearly pressed to dismount Obama from office as quickly as possible I would say that it's only expected that everything he passes will be dramatized ten fold. If info came from more neutral outlets than people have a case against it, but so far it's just the people who are already pre-disposed to disliking Obama who find it to be unconstitutional imo.

 

[tsst]

Hmm. I guess so, although I wasn't specifically talking about abortion, but about all the anti-women shenanigans they'd been up to. You're right in that referencing it got the ball rolling. I didn't really mean it go like it did, though, it'd just been on my mind alot.
...

Don't take it the wrong way. I view threads as a conversation. What I mean is if someone posts something that makes you think of something else by all means post it. That is why I didn't ask you to start your own thread. I welcome the flow into different topics, it’s a conversation. I only brought it up because Stephenie was simply doing the same thing.

 

[tsst]

Firstly (because this *needs* to be said) Trayvon Martin's murder had a little more than something to do with race...Who is somebody to prognosticate the mind-state of George Zimmerman and say he was simply a do-good, by the books citizen. **He shot and killed a 16 year old boy who was armed with Skittles and an Ice Tea**...He (Zimmerman) was never tested for drugs or alcohol even though the 911 dispatcher said he sounded drunk and told him not to follow the boy. It's blatant racism and even though it wasn't the police who killed him, it is them who chose to not follow protocol and who let a man who committed a hate-crime walk free. I'm all for veterans welfare and by all means they deserve it, but so do the 16 year old boys who die violently for nothing other than "looking suspicious".
...

I will confess I have not followed this much. The topic came up in conversation the other day at work. I didn't directly participate because I had little to no info on the subject, but I listened. One of the women in the conversation kept asking why the media keeps showing pics of Treyvon as a 13 yr old middle school student when he is actually a 17 yr old 6'3" young man that was not even in school(suspended). Not that it has anything to do with the case but it is interesting to see the media coverage.

I will try to read more on it in the coming days.

 

[Michael823]

I will confess I have not followed this much. The topic came up in conversation the other day at work. I didn't directly participate because I had little to no info on the subject, but I listened. One of the women in the conversation kept asking why the media keeps showing pics of Treyvon as a 13 yr old middle school student when he is actually a 17 yr old 6'3" young man that was not even in school(suspended). Not that it has anything to do with the case but it is interesting to see the media coverage.

I will try to read more on it in the coming days.

I believe they do that, because no arrest has been made. And where the only battle right now seems to be in the court of public opinion, and where it's possible that this child's size had to do with the prejudice that killed him, perhaps his child photos are the wisest to produce.

My thing is... make the arrest. Because all of this time is just causing people to polarize this issue, which is just going to cause an un-needed division between people. At the very least, there is substantial evidence for this case to see the courts.

This was an innocent boy with Skittles and an Iced Tea (no weapons, no intention of committing wrong), and he was walking home from a 711. He was on the phone with his girlfriend during the stalking of Zimmerman (which phone records indicate), in which she had heard Martin ask what the guy approaching him (Zimmerman) wanted (after Zimmerman was told by dispatch not to follow). A neighbor also reported screaming for help by a boy during that struggle, and that boy was not 6'3, he was 6' (not that it matters in the killing), and was outweighed 2/1 by the aggressor (who was also armed, and could have kept a safe distance). He noted before approaching the boy (to dispatch) that the boy was running, saying "they always get away". And where this child was just trying to get home (after being stalked by a suspicious car (that was not a cop), it was probably smart to run and "get away". For all he knew (up until the second he died), he was being chased by a dangerous man (and he was). I think we would teach our children to run from people (who aren't cops) that pull alongside you and follow you at night, because I think every adult would have that same instinct.

The longer that this drags out by people saying "it's not about race", the longer this case becomes about race. I'm not even stating my opinions of whether it was race... personally, I feel like Zimmerman was just an overly paranoid and vigilant night-watch, in which race was just an aspect of his paranoia (not to be compared to most people). His own neighbors had complained to police about his over-aggression, and he was arrested in 05 for fighting with police.

This case just needs to go to court. It's not fair for the family to have their child be minimized in such a way.

 

[tsst]

I believe they do that, because no arrest has been made. And where the only battle right now seems to be in the court of public opinion, and where it's possible that this child's size had to do with the prejudice that killed him, perhaps his child photos are the wisest to produce.

My thing is... make the arrest. Because all of this time is just causing people to polarize this issue, which is just going to cause an un-needed division between people. At the very least, there is substantial evidence for this case to see the courts.

This was an innocent boy with Skittles and an Iced Tea (no weapons, no intention of committing wrong), and he was walking home from a 711. He was on the phone with his girlfriend during the stalking of Zimmerman (which phone records indicate), in which she had heard Martin ask what the guy approaching him (Zimmerman) wanted (after Zimmerman was told by dispatch not to follow). A neighbor also reported screaming for help by a boy during that struggle, and that boy was not 6'3, he was 6' (not that it matters in the killing), and was outweighed 2/1 by the aggressor (who was also armed, and could have kept a safe distance). He noted before approaching the boy (to dispatch) that the boy was running, saying "they always get away". And where this child was just trying to get home (after being stalked by a suspicious car (that was not a cop), it was probably smart to run and "get away". For all he knew (up until the second he died), he was being chased by a dangerous man (and he was). I think we would teach our children to run from people (who aren't cops) that pull alongside you and follow you at night, because I think every adult would have that same instinct.

The longer that this drags out by people saying "it's not about race", the longer this case becomes about race. I'm not even stating my opinions of whether it was race... personally, I feel like Zimmerman was just an overly paranoid and vigilant night-watch, in which race was just an aspect of his paranoia (not to be compared to most people). His own neighbors had complained to police about his over-aggression, and he was arrested in 05 for fighting with police.

This case just needs to go to court. It's not fair for the family to have their child be minimized in such a way.

If what you state are the proven facts I agree he should be arrested and the case should go to court. I still have not read any more about it so I would be amiss to comment further.

 

[Michael823]

If what you state are the proven facts I agree he should be arrested and the case should go to court. I still have not read any more about it so I would be amiss to comment further.

This is just from what I've read/seen on the news. But either way, I don't think that all of these details need to be proven facts before an arrest is issued. The reasonable cause is clear enough for an arrest (with all of the circumstantial evidence), and the hordes of details and proven facts should only be necessary in putting this man away for life.

 

[tsst]

This is just from what I've read/seen on the news. But either way, I don't think that all of these details need to be proven facts before an arrest is issued. The reasonable cause is clear enough for an arrest (with all of the circumstantial evidence), and the hordes of details and proven facts should only be necessary in putting this man away for life.

I wonder why there is no arrest yet. With all of the backlash officials are getting and all of the evidence it would seem logical to make an arrest. The only thing I can think of is the police have evidence that is contradictory to what the press is saying. I guess time will tell.