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executive order 3/16/2012

From what I have read the Justice Dept is doing an investigation of both the police actions and the murder itself.

Police claim that there isn't any evidence that disputes his story of self defense. Unfortunately, Florida has a law that states if you feel your life is threatened you may use deadly force.

At this point. I believe it was murder. JHMO
 
I wonder why there is no arrest yet. With all of the backlash officials are getting and all of the evidence it would seem logical to make an arrest. The only thing I can think of is the police have evidence that is contradictory to what the press is saying. I guess time will tell.
It would seem very logical to make an arrest by now (even if they were guilty of a cover-up). The longer it goes until an arrest is made, the deeper the questions go for many people. And when you're dealing with such a sensitive contrast between the shooter, the murdered child, and the police' delay in an arrest, there's a lot to start to question...

I think the media is also quite unfair to this family as well (all media). It's great to show this story, but some of these issues that people are worried about are just empty emotions for this families sake. They lost their child, who they know to be nothing but a child that was loving and full of life, and that they had hoped to love until the day they died. And there hasn't even been a moment of "let's take another look at this" case from the police, and there was no sense of justice being given to that family. I try to trade places with that family, and I honestly can't even begin to feel their pain.

I think the police just did a poor job gathering evidence (probably out of at least partial prejudice for the 'tall' boy in a hoodie), and they completely disregarded the idea that neighbors and a witness over the phone would have had a different account in the following days/weeks. And rather than step up to the plate when this information came out, they probably felt like it would be too little too late with that information to avoid the inevitable accusations of negligence in this case, and now it just seems like arrogance in forcing the higher-up enforcement to come in and deal with it. It puts too large of an onus on the rest of the country, for something that local police should have had done within hours of them arriving on the scene.

I just hope that this issue isn't eventually a political division, because I can think of no people who are in defense of this guy right now. And I think that's uni-laterally between all races/religions/political groups/etc... I think we all want to know that justice will be served on behalf of our young people, especially our loved one, should something like this happen to us. Again, just so tragic.
 
I just don't think that you have the maturity enough to really understand the seriousness of this issue. I don't say that as an insult, but I can tell by your eagerness to jump in on discussions with an almost 'coached' sound to your political views, that you are the type to talk, not listen. And not patient and humble enough to look at this case all by itself... look at the facts, and then make a decision on what about this case is right/wrong. Don't just jump in eager to prove where you stand on political issues, focus on the discussion at hand. And really give a thought to it before you post something in contrast to the discussion.

I don't think you can picture yourself (as someone roughly that age) being the one shot and killed for walking home from the store with Skittles and Iced Tea (no one that age can, and no one thinks it will ever be them), and I'm sure that you're family would have that circumstance haunt them for the rest of their lives. But it has happened, it's just been to a different innocent boy, that has been killed in such a senseless way. Justice has to be served, and there is no link to a contrasting (and UN-related) story that can make this any less of an important issue.
 
From what I have read the Justice Dept is doing an investigation of both the police actions and the murder itself.

Police claim that there isn't any evidence that disputes his story of self defense. Unfortunately, Florida has a law that states if you feel your life is threatened you may use deadly force.

At this point. I believe it was murder. JHMO

Wasn't the kid running away from the person who shot him!!
Outside, not near the home.

If so....... This is soooo wrong!!!
 
I just don't think that you have the maturity enough to really understand the seriousness of this issue. I don't say that as an insult, but I can tell by your eagerness to jump in on discussions with an almost 'coached' sound to your political views, that you are the type to talk, not listen. And not patient and humble enough to look at this case all by itself... look at the facts, and then make a decision on what about this case is right/wrong. Don't just jump in eager to prove where you stand on political issues, focus on the discussion at hand. And really give a thought to it before you post something in contrast to the discussion.

I don't think you can picture yourself (as someone roughly that age) being the one shot and killed for walking home from the store with Skittles and Iced Tea (no one that age can, and no one thinks it will ever be them), and I'm sure that you're family would have that circumstance haunt them for the rest of their lives. But it has happened, it's just been to a different innocent boy, that has been killed in such a senseless way. Justice has to be served, and there is no link to a contrasting (and UN-related) story that can make this any less of an important issue.

It is a serious issue. But nothing points to it being race related. Not all of the evidence has been collected, no one's heard the other side (which is a right of the accused). I'm not saying it's not horrible, I'm not saying it's not a tragedy, I'm saying we need to see all of the evidence first. It's the right of the accused. I'm 18 years old, work, go to school and run a business. I think that takes patience, and maturity, wouldn't you agree?. If this was a white kid and the shoot was black do you think it would be such an issue? No. I've read all the headlines, seen all the reports and I've listened to everyone's point of view. Personally, I don't think Zimmerman's innocent, but I think we need to gather the rest of the facts and figure out what really happened.
 
If you've read all the reports, then you know that Zimmerman has been anything but silent. He made his case for self defense. So we've heard from his side. In fact, the side we haven't heard from is Martin's, because he's dead. That's the only side we'll never know.

If a black man had shot a white kid, he'd be in jail, no question.

The prosecutor's office involved has a history with overlooking homicides with black victims and white shooters. This is also something that's been reported on in the wake of this tragedy, so I wonder just how many reports you've really read.

PS. Not all of the evidence has been collected because the cops refused to investigate.
 
I didn't ask if he would be in jail. I asked if it would be such a massive issue.

Well, the 'in jail' is the part people are upset about. If Zimmerman had been arrested, there wouldn't be demonstrations. It's the fact that the police have shown total disregard to the victim that people are so upset about.

There are plenty of homicides all over all the time. What's unique about this one? A white guy shot a black kid that he had been stalking, by his own admission, and the police did not even arrest him.

If a black guy had shot a white kid that he had been stalking and was not arrested? Yeah, there would a massive outcry. I would imagine Fox News would run it as the top news story every hour on the hour.
 
Well, the 'in jail' is the part people are upset about. If Zimmerman had been arrested, there wouldn't be demonstrations. It's the fact that the police have shown total disregard to the victim that people are so upset about.

There are plenty of homicides all over all the time. What's unique about this one? A white guy shot a black kid that he had been stalking, by his own admission, and the police did not even arrest him.

If a black guy had shot a white kid that he had been stalking and was not arrested? Yeah, there would a massive outcry. I would imagine Fox News would run it as the top news story every hour on the hour.

Just like CNN is doing with this case.
 
But he isn't a white guy, just thought I would point that out. He is hispanic.

Again, everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. The media surrounding it can be very biases to one side or the other.

Again, I believe it is murder but I am not a police officer that was on scene. Yes the police made huge mistakes in not following proper procedure when collecting evidence ie impounding Zimmerman truck. Perhaps there still isn't enough evidence except public opinion to arrest him?

And the outcry from the community and other big name did help get the DOJ involved in the case and perhaps they will make an arrest as soon as they finish their investigation. But when tensions are running so high, they want to make sure they have everything they need to prove without reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is guilty or not guilty. But with that law in Florida it is kind of hard.
 
But when tensions are running so high, they want to make sure they have everything they need to prove without reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is guilty or not guilty. But with that law in Florida it is kind of hard.

This isn't really the cops' job. They are supposed to investigate crimes and arrest suspects if they have probably cause. Probable cause has a way low requirement (Look at the constant arrests any time there's a protest. People just sitting on a sidewalk get arrested en masse).

It's the prosecutor's job to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and a jury to decide what that reasonable doubt entails. The cops do not get to decide this. Way out of their purview.
 
You are correct. I was speaking in terms of the Department of Justice that is now investigating the death and I shouldn't have said beyond a reasonable doubt. They need to find out if there is even enough evidence to base it as a hate crime or even a murder. It is going to be hard because Zimmerman claimed self defense and with Florida law of "Stand your ground" it is going to be hard to prove other way.

Due to the state's 'Stand Your Ground' law, alleged shooter George Zimmerman is still a free man. That law allows a person to use deadly force when there is a reasonable belief of a threat, without an obligation to retreat first.
 
It is going to be hard because Zimmerman claimed self defense and with Florida law of "Stand your ground" it is going to be hard to prove other way.

I don't see that part of it ...yet. Zimmerman was out on a neighborhood watch patrol with a gun!!. Called cops before the shooting!!

Where is the self defence!! Defend from what. A 17 year old 6 foot kid running away!!

This is all I'm seeing so far but time will tell.
 
Oh, I don't believe for one minute it was self defense. It was all out murder. He stalked down a person and confronted them with a gun. I don't see self defense. But that law is the reason no arrest has been made.

I really don't care what the race of each were, it was murder. He should be held accountable for that.
 
Oh, I don't believe for one minute it was self defense. It was all out murder. He stalked down a person and confronted them with a gun. I don't see self defense. But that law is the reason no arrest has been made.

I really don't care what the race of each were, it was murder. He should be held accountable for that.


yeah,,,,I'm starting to see that.....

That law is known as the "Stand Your Ground," or "Shoot First" law and it's been controversial since it was passed in 2005. Basically, The Christian Science Monitor reports, the law gets rid of the English Law concept of "duty to retreat" from a situation that is dangerous outside your home.
 
It is a serious issue. But nothing points to it being race related. Not all of the evidence has been collected, no one's heard the other side (which is a right of the accused).
The problem is... he has NOT been accused. I'm not screaming "he's a racist, put the man to death". I'm saying "there's too much evidence to the contrary to claim self-defense and walk away without going to trial. So he is actually free to do much more than share his side of the story as is. He's allowed to go to the store, have dinner at home and wake up a free man. And who said "race related". This was clearly the result of prejudice (on the behalf of one man). Let's not discount that this should be a learning experience on what 'perceived' threats are to some people in this country, and to the lengths in which such a strong fear can result in the extreme action of taking a life without warrant (other than prejudice, paranoia and fear). That was no indictment on anyone else than the perpetrator... until the police decided not to make an arrest. In which case it should call into question the entire investigation.


I'm not saying it's not horrible, I'm not saying it's not a tragedy, I'm saying we need to see all of the evidence first. It's the right of the accused. I'm 18 years old, work, go to school and run a business. I think that takes patience, and maturity, wouldn't you agree?. If this was a white kid and the shoot was black do you think it would be such an issue? No. I've read all the headlines, seen all the reports and I've listened to everyone's point of view. Personally, I don't think Zimmerman's innocent, but I think we need to gather the rest of the facts and figure out what really happened.
You may very well be able to handle a job and your own life. My point (as proven by this statement) is just that you are too young (and it's not really your fault) to put yourself in the shoes of this family or their child. I also think that you are living in a world all to your own if you think that there would be no difference in the prosecution of this case, had the races of the victim and shooter had been switched. We send scuba divers to Aruba for some kids that age, so I can't pretend like this is typical procedure to handle a child murder case (or non-case) like this.

And as for the shooter being 'non-white'... racism has it's roots everywhere. Hispanic communities suffer from racism as well, which I have heard myself. And depending on that person's background, they may have grown up in a prejudice environment that was mostly white.

I think that the facts and circumstances indicate prejudice, as this child was simply walking home from the store... I mean, what else could have been the reason?... I seriously can't think of any other (but I'm not un-willing to consider an idea). But people need to realize that racism amongst young black men in this country does exist (and has since the founding of this country), and that this is likely the cause for death of this child.

I post what I post out of hope that someone will see my perspective as reasonable. I could care less about being 'right'. In this situation, I find it especially hard to understand the arrogance of those who have stood in the way of justice for this family (local PD, political ralliers, etc...). They just want an arrest, and the civil trial of having this horrific trial sorted out. It might provide some closure for a family that has just had the worst imaginable pain happen to them. I understand people having questions, and it's fine to ask them. But it would take 5mins out of your day (Carinata) to get all of the information on this case that should be needed to have some compassion and understanding towards this family.

I'll leave it at that, though. I really am not trying to target you, David. I just seriously think it might be important for you to take 5-10 mins to really take in the full spectrum of these reports. Try to imagine what you might say to the family, or how you might actually feel some of their pain. And then try to imagine telling them that there is a good reason why their child has been killed, and why the killer should go free.
 
Michael, it's devastating. His family is going through what no family deserves to go through. I have read all the reports, seen the TV shows etc. I know the case. I have compaasion for the family. I simply think we shouldn't jump to the notion this guy is just a cold blooded killer. He is being accused. Everyone is accusing him! I simply think we should open our minds and consider the fact that maybe something did in fact happen that we aren't hearing about.
 
If something DID happen that we haven't heard about, Martin's girlfriend (who he was on the phone with at the time) would have heard, as would the 911 dispatcher, who Zimmerman was on the phone with at the time. I'm sure that the police have already reviewed the tape, because they've mentioned on several news reports that they could hear Martin trying to get away, and pleading for his life. Pleading. Does that sound like an attack? Nope. I say arrest Zimmerman now while the investigation continues, especially because it's safer for him in jail at the moment than it is anywhere else. I'm sure there are quite a few people who would love to get their hands on him, and vigilante justice is never the answer.
 
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