The ball python madness

[fyrefocks]

Yeah, I'm good with insulting all those people. And being as I have 14 years experience in this hobby, which is roughly the majority of your life span, I'm comfortable in my assessment.

 

[Carinata]

You've got 4 years on me..... Darn :'(

 

[Reptileman81]

I've seen much worse in DYK, give me a break.

Nanci, the whole "Balls not being affordable to someone who wants a high end morph as a pet, being the reason that it's all about money", to me says market crashing.

I dont think anyone here is suggesting that a once 45K snake should now be $45. I think what is being said is that if you even dream as a kid, young adult or even adult to own a nice morph of BP you will me shelling out a few thousand dollars. But corns just about anyone can own some of their favorate color morphs for just a few hundred.

Yes BP keeping/breeding takes more to do then corns. Yes they have fewer eggs then corns. Yes we can double clutch corns if we wish (I for one do not and dont think I will EVER). But when you factor that a average clutch of corn eggs is 20 and a BP clutch is 5-6 then factor in that both clutches hold the same rarity of morphs in them why is the BP baby 10 times more then the corn morph. By my math we only get 4 times more eggs not 10 times more. Now if BP prices were 4 times more then corns I can totally get it but as stated they are more often then not 10 times as much if not more. Even a Albino BP still goes for 300-500 when a Amel Corn goes for 25 bucks in most cases. Thats more then 10 times. Albino BP have been around long enough (by my count 18 years or more) for that price to be so much less.

I think that this is all that is trying to be said. I would not say that BP breeders are greedy because there are some corn breeders that the same thing could be said about. I will say though that corn breeders are more will to have there prices lowered to make sure that everyone can own a corn and not just the rich or ones that are investing to make money.

 

[vliberatore]

So back to the subject...

How many people are working with BP morphs?

How many are working with corn morphs?

Could that be the reason there's a price difference???


And again, if someone would kindly link to a $40,000 snake, I would really appreciate it....

 

[vliberatore]

I will say though that corn breeders are more will to have there prices lowered to make sure that everyone can own a corn and not just the rich or ones that are investing to make money.

No that's bulls---. Corns are cheaper because they are more readily available in different morphs. Balls are not. They are harder to get the desired morphs, and are therefore, more expensive.

I know a lot of you may hold business degrees, but it's really not that complicated.

 

[fyrefocks]

How many people are working with BP morphs?

How many are working with corn morphs?

Could that be the reason there's a price difference???


And again, if someone would kindly link to a $40,000 snake, I would really appreciate it....

I admit I'd like to see it too. But I don't need to. Once you see a 30K price tag, 40K isn't that hard to imagine. And 30K was NERDs original price for a male soul sucker.

 

[Carinata]

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=929750

Honestly, there are more people breeding Balls on a large Scale than people breeding Corns on a large scale.

 

[Carinata]

Yeah, I'm good with insulting all those people. And being as I have 14 years experience in this hobby, which is roughly the majority of your life span, I'm comfortable in my assessment.

Ok. What about people like Mike Wilbanks, Kevin McCurley, Brian Sharp, etc, that have been breeding Balls for 25 years and don't intend on stopping. Are they wrong? Have they done nothing for our hobby? Brian B. from BHB, is he someone who you have more experience than on the market?

 

[vliberatore]

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=929750

Honestly, there are more people breeding Balls on a large Scale than people breeding Corns on a large scale.

On a large scale that may be true. But total # of snakes... I doublt that there are more balls on the market than corns.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

I dont think anyone here is suggesting that a once 45K snake should now be $45. I think what is being said is that if you even dream as a kid, young adult or even adult to own a nice morph of BP you will me shelling out a few thousand dollars. But corns just about anyone can own some of their favorate color morphs for just a few hundred.

Not true. Gorgeous morphs are readily available well under $500. Heck some under $200, not thousands. It's insanely easy to breed com dom morphs together and make really nice stuff on a $300 investment.

Exactly the same as corn snakes.... many nice corn morphs are in $100 to $300 range, same with BPs.

I think that this is all that is trying to be said. I would not say that BP breeders are greedy because there are some corn breeders that the same thing could be said about. I will say though that corn breeders are more will to have there prices lowered to make sure that everyone can own a corn and not just the rich or ones that are investing to make money.

Corn prices stay lower because they will not sell for a higher price. It's not breeders wanting more people to have them out of kindness, it's the fact that they want them to be sold. They know that something will sit and never sell at $200 so you drop it to $150 to ensure will move to the right buyer.

Plus the clutch size of corns does not let the price stay high. Billy has 20 blue corns for $500, but Mack has 40 blue corns and wants them gone. So Mack drops the price to $400. Then Stu comes along and breeds his blue male to 20 females, makes 100 eggs and he drops the price to $200 because he needs more room.

At least you don't see the rampant price deflating in ball pythons. Look what happened to Tesseras because everyone and their brother bred them to everything. The market is edging on flooding and certainly has crashed.

How many people are working with BP morphs?

How many are working with corn morphs?

Could that be the reason there's a price difference???

No. The price difference is clutch size, and marketing. Mainly clutch size. When you have 6 eggs, not 16, the odds of hitting a combo morph drop. Therefore the more genes involved in the morph, the higher the price will be.

Plus, for whatever reason, you don't see dramatic price drops in BPs.

 

[fyrefocks]

On a large scale that may be true. But total # of snakes... I doublt that there are more balls on the market than corns.

Sadly, I doubt this true. Given that balls are imported by the hundreds of thousands, at least, every year from the wild. Where as corns are not harvested in such a manner.

Do I know more than BHB? Nope. But I've dealt with them and are unhappy with them, so I don't really have faith in what they do know.

I do not know those other gentlemen you speak of. Here is what I do know, regardless of the market, when you produce or find something new, you can put whatever price on it that you want. 4K is outside of my price range, but not outside of my scope of possibility. 45K is pure greed. And if the market could really bear that price, people would line up to buy it. I'll bet half a dozen people could actually afford it. Maybe a dozen.

Remember folks, just because one person is willing to pay that much, it doesn't mean the snake is worth it to anyone else. Nor does it justify the price tag. There are many forms of insanity.

 

[Nanci]

I have three quintuple HOMO corns that are going to be offered for sale shortly. $200!! What do you think a quintuple BP would bring??

 

[fyrefocks]

I have three quintuple HOMO corns that are going to be offered for sale shortly. $200!! What do you think a quintuple BP would bring??

It's hard to say. Your five genes are recessive. I don't think I've ever heard of a quint recessive BP. Everyone is about the co-dom, again, a money thing. But lets pretend that it doesn't make a difference *cough*bs*cough*. It could be anywhere from 5K to 25K. And there is a chance someone from another country would hop on a plane to fly over to buy it from you personally. I've heard of that happening.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

I have three quintuple HOMO corns that are going to be offered for sale shortly. $200!! What do you think a quintuple BP would bring??

Just add a K to the end of that price.

 

[Carinata]

A dozen? There following people have multiple Banana/Coral Glows
Marc Baily
Garrick Demeyer
Matt L.
Brian B.
Rusty-Balls
Ozzy Boids
Brock Wagner
Keo Reptiles
Mike Wilbanks
Ken Mancek
Dave Green
Boa Basement
NERD
Albinos Unlimited
Henry Piorun
Bill Galloway

That's 16, and those are just people I know off the top of my head. It's a co-dominant Albino, and when it was offered for it's original asking price, they sold. It's also sex linked with males being produced almost never. Female Bananas are in the $17,000 range.
It's not greed, it's making your investment back and making a living. Do you think selling snakes is an easy way to make a living?

 

[fyrefocks]

Do you think selling snakes is an easy way to make a living?

I'm going to chalk this right here up to a kid who think he knows everything about the world. I did too, when I wasn't almost 30 years old. And as much I like to think I know a bunch right now, I don't know .

17K for one gene? Sorry, technically half a gene. Fork off. Greed.

 

[Carinata]

That's not the question I asked you. I asked you if you thought breeding snakes was an easy living.
I could care less about your opinion of me, especially since you really don't know me.

Nate, I appreciate your opinion. I disagree with it, but I still appreciate it. I'm not willing to get into a giant flame war with you, and I'm not willing to fake a huge fuss. We both simply have different views of the industry, and I don't think either of our views will change. Just wanted to get that out there before we continue this discussion.

 

[fyrefocks]

That's not the question I asked you. I asked you if you thought breeding snakes was an easy living.
I could care less about your opinion of me, especially since you really don't know me.

And I asked you to tell me what about gay marriage offends your way of life, but you dodged that bullet, didn't ya?

It can be, if you have the money.

To quote my buddy Danny B.: "Know how to make a small fortune breeding chondros? Start out with a large fortune."

This holds true for most anybody who breeds any animal for resale. Poor Joe Shmoe isn't going to be the next big breeder.

 

[Carinata]

Last time I checked this wasn't a political discussion.

Most of these people didn't start with a lot of money. I would invite you to research breeders who got a second mortgage, worked 3 jobs, lived on ramen for years, etc.

It's all about hard work and investing your money correctly.

 

[vliberatore]

I'm going to chalk this right here up to a kid who think he knows everything about the world. I did too, when I wasn't almost 30 years old. And as much I like to think I know a bunch right now, I don't know .

17K for one gene? Sorry, technically half a gene. Fork off. Greed.

If you could sell a corn for $17k, would you?

If you answer yes, you're greedy.
If you answer no, you're stupid.