Chip
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
The amount of BS surrounding this case is amazing: http://instagram.com/p/bhgXR0Qq1h/
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Zimmerman trial
- Thread starter Rich Z
- Start date
dave partington
Crazy Dave
Visually Expressed Melanin is a trait. (sorry to persons who want to
own "crackers", it's a fact) Do I need to slap on my hoodie and photochop up some imagery? Maybe it's just a cultural difference. How many of you have LIVED in Sanford? Just spend a few hours there, you'll see. Sanford. Not <like the rest of> America.Baseball player Jackie Robinson, the first black to ever play major league baseball, was driven out of Sanford by the KKK
Nanci
Alien Lover
See, this just pisses me off. Obviously, if a [half] white guy kills a black guy, the white guy is WRONG, no matter what the circumstances. "They" (yes, I'm generalizing here) can't look at the trial, see the facts, understand the law. So freaking what if GZ instigated it! (Not saying he did). It DOES NOT MATTER, LEGALLY. You have the right to defend yourself if you are in fear for your life, whether you started it or not.
Did white America go crazy and start killing blacks in retribution when OJ was found not guilty? Nope. I don't understand what the difference is- why everything has to be "racially motivated" if a black person is the "victim." Why isn't it just two humans? This is why this country is ALWAYS going to have racial tension, IMO. People can't just move on.
Nanci
Alien Lover
Here is a good timeline of events leading up to the confrontation, from a thread on Reddit:
Zimmerman's story fits all of the evidence, that's very hard to do if he is lying. Martins' only injuries were the gunshot wound and the scrapes and bruises on his knuckles. Zimmerman had a deep gash on the back of his head, a broken nose, black eyes and various other signs he had been hit. He also had grass stains on his back. That all fits with GZ's claim he was sucker punched, pushed to the ground then beaten. Rachel Jeantel said under oath in her deposition that she heard a thump that sounded like someone being hit. She later backtracked on this in court. The police took photos of GZ's knuckles and they were clean which implies he didn't hit anyone. You can see these pictures online. Zimmerman had grass stains and moisture on his back consistent with being pushed on to the wet grass. Martin had grass stains on his knees, consistent with kneeling over someone. Witnesses saw a hooded man on top of a screaming man yelling for help. Trayvon's father said the cries for help were not his son's voice. Other witnesses saw George on top but that was after the gun shot. The timing of the shot was confirmed by the 911 tape. So they saw George after he shot Trayvon and when he was trying to crawl out from under him. If George had shot him from above then the shell casing would have been found in a different area altogether.
I think Martin went to the store to buy the ingredients for Lean, a codeine cough syrup drink. His social media supports this because his recipe was to add the syrup to Arizona Watermelon and Skittles. He also purchased a blunt wrapper, his social media supports this as well since he was a heavy user of marijuana. I don't have a problem with adults smoking weed but children do not have the same capacities as adults. For example, their frontal lobes are still developing. That is the part of the brain that helps you predict consequences of your actions. Here is a study that discusses the Impact of Marijuana on Children and Adolescents It points out how the brain is still developing until 25 and how marijuana affects children in teens differently than adults.
There is about 45 minutes between the time-stamp of when he left the store and when GZ reports to 911 that he sees him entering the housing complex. The store is about 1 mile from his dad's house. He was seen on camera checking out at 6:23:49, George Zimmerman reports him entering the neighborhood side entrance at 7:09:34. Why did it take him 45 minutes to walk 1 mile? The defense's questioning of his friend, the friend who claimed to be talking to him at this point, is sketchy as hell on this particular topic.Discussion of Defense Exhibit 16 - Call Log to Establish Timeline She seems like she is obviously not saying something or dancing around something. She has been caught in several lies so her vagueness here is bothersome. He was most likely smoking part of the blunt and had the remainder on his person. The autopsy confirms THC in his blood. It could have been in his system from a previous point in time, but police never found the blunt wrapper he purchased at the store. This also explains why Martin took off running when he got close enough to GZ on the phone. He most likely figured out GZ was on the phone with the police and wanted to go hide his blunt. He may have even thought GZ was a cop on a sting since Martin had recently been kicked out of school for drugs and was selling drugs to other kids.
GZ reported that the kid was acting like he was on drugs. He was wandering between houses without an obvious purpose, looking at them in a suspicious manner. It was raining and the Martin didn't seem to mind. He wasn't making any effort to get out of the rain. That seemed strange to Zimmerman. I'm guessing that it suggested to GZ the the kid wasn't from the neighborhood. It seems strange to me too. If you lived in a neighborhood and it started raining would you just wander around looking at houses? If I am going up to the corner store and it starts raining I would try to quickly get back to my house in case the rain got heavier. The context of this is that the neighborhood had a series of break-ins from kids that fit TM description; height, color, build, sex. Here was a kid that looked very out of place who seems to be on drugs who took off running for no apparent reason.
Wendy Dorival, a volunteer program coordinator for the Sanford Police Department, said she doesn't discuss whether residents should carry firearms while participating in neighborhood watch program. She added that she believed Zimmerman was a professional person who wanted to make a change in his community, which had been targeted by burglars. Zimmerman lawyer Don West asked Dorival whether a person walking in rain between houses without a particular purpose — a description of Trayvon the night of the shooting — was suspicious. Dorival said yes and added that she encourages neighbors to know who doesn't belong and to call police.
The president of the homeowners, Donald O'Brien, said he once text messaged Zimmerman with praises for a group of workers who followed a burglar. Their actions led to the arrest of a young black man, who fit TM's description who was later charged with burglaries in the neighborhood.
TM ran to his dad's house, hanging up on his friend in the process. His friend called back, he said he was at the dad's house and said he saw GZ behind him. This doesn't mean right behind him most likely he saw GZ at the far side of the sidewalk down by the cut through entrance where his truck was located a few yards a way. To picture this you have to imagine the cut through being the top part of a capital T where if you run on the top part you would end up on the street Long View Circle and if you continue on the same way you would be on a public road, but if you turned you would run down the long part of the T which would be the sidewalk dividing up the back yards of two rows of houses. Here is a map that shows the layout Here is one that is more clear. Here is another one and here is another one On the 911 call the operator asked GZ which direction the suspicious person went. At that point GZ could not see so he got out of his truck to see. He did this in response to the 911 operator's question, not because he was trying to "stalk" someone. GZ did not know if TM went towards the street marked B on the second image or did he go down the sidewalk. He wanted to be helpful to the police when they arrived by being able to say where the kid went. This is very indicative of a helpful citizen and not indicative of some stalking mad man.
When the 911 operator told him "we don't need you to do that" GZ turned his back away from Martin and headed back to his car. The operator said this as a means to keep Zimmerman safe, not as some way to protect TM. Earlier police told the neighborhood watch it was acceptable to follow suspicious persons from a safe distance. In fact some workers were able to get a person fitting TM's description arrested for burglary by following him from a safe distance. At this point GZ is turning around to go back to his truck and Martin is running back away from his dad's house, towards Zimmerman. At this point TM confronted GZ saying "why you following me." During her original deposition Rachel Jeantel said GZ responded with confusion. TM sucker punched GZ which knocked the ear piece out, causing the phone to hang up on his friend.
Martin was on top of Zimmerman which witness John Doe confirms. GZ was screaming for help, Martin's dad confirmed that the scream for help was not the voice of his son.
Martin had been kicked out of school for drugs and for possessing burglary tools. He was kicked out of his mom's house for behavior problems. He was deeply involved in street fighting, dealing drugs and was looking for someone to buy him a gun. To me it seemed like he saw himself as a thug and was looking for an excuse to fight. He was young and didn't think straight because he was on drugs. If he was sober he would have stayed at his dad's house rather than running to confront a stranger. I don't care if adults do drugs but this case illustrates clearly why children should not be allowed to do drugs. They have impaired judgement as it is due to not having a fully formed frontal cortex. Add drugs in and you have a recipe for this sort of disaster.
Rachel Jeantel, Martin's friend is not credible whatsoever. She changed her story numerous times and admitted to not taking the deposition process seriously.
In 2010 race-related beating case, George Zimmerman pushed to discipline same officers who investigated Trayvon Martin shooting Basically he went to the defense of a homeless black man he thought was beaten unfairly by the officers later responsible for investigating him for the shooting of TM.
Zimmerman's story fits all of the evidence, that's very hard to do if he is lying. Martins' only injuries were the gunshot wound and the scrapes and bruises on his knuckles. Zimmerman had a deep gash on the back of his head, a broken nose, black eyes and various other signs he had been hit. He also had grass stains on his back. That all fits with GZ's claim he was sucker punched, pushed to the ground then beaten. Rachel Jeantel said under oath in her deposition that she heard a thump that sounded like someone being hit. She later backtracked on this in court. The police took photos of GZ's knuckles and they were clean which implies he didn't hit anyone. You can see these pictures online. Zimmerman had grass stains and moisture on his back consistent with being pushed on to the wet grass. Martin had grass stains on his knees, consistent with kneeling over someone. Witnesses saw a hooded man on top of a screaming man yelling for help. Trayvon's father said the cries for help were not his son's voice. Other witnesses saw George on top but that was after the gun shot. The timing of the shot was confirmed by the 911 tape. So they saw George after he shot Trayvon and when he was trying to crawl out from under him. If George had shot him from above then the shell casing would have been found in a different area altogether.
I think Martin went to the store to buy the ingredients for Lean, a codeine cough syrup drink. His social media supports this because his recipe was to add the syrup to Arizona Watermelon and Skittles. He also purchased a blunt wrapper, his social media supports this as well since he was a heavy user of marijuana. I don't have a problem with adults smoking weed but children do not have the same capacities as adults. For example, their frontal lobes are still developing. That is the part of the brain that helps you predict consequences of your actions. Here is a study that discusses the Impact of Marijuana on Children and Adolescents It points out how the brain is still developing until 25 and how marijuana affects children in teens differently than adults.
There is about 45 minutes between the time-stamp of when he left the store and when GZ reports to 911 that he sees him entering the housing complex. The store is about 1 mile from his dad's house. He was seen on camera checking out at 6:23:49, George Zimmerman reports him entering the neighborhood side entrance at 7:09:34. Why did it take him 45 minutes to walk 1 mile? The defense's questioning of his friend, the friend who claimed to be talking to him at this point, is sketchy as hell on this particular topic.Discussion of Defense Exhibit 16 - Call Log to Establish Timeline She seems like she is obviously not saying something or dancing around something. She has been caught in several lies so her vagueness here is bothersome. He was most likely smoking part of the blunt and had the remainder on his person. The autopsy confirms THC in his blood. It could have been in his system from a previous point in time, but police never found the blunt wrapper he purchased at the store. This also explains why Martin took off running when he got close enough to GZ on the phone. He most likely figured out GZ was on the phone with the police and wanted to go hide his blunt. He may have even thought GZ was a cop on a sting since Martin had recently been kicked out of school for drugs and was selling drugs to other kids.
GZ reported that the kid was acting like he was on drugs. He was wandering between houses without an obvious purpose, looking at them in a suspicious manner. It was raining and the Martin didn't seem to mind. He wasn't making any effort to get out of the rain. That seemed strange to Zimmerman. I'm guessing that it suggested to GZ the the kid wasn't from the neighborhood. It seems strange to me too. If you lived in a neighborhood and it started raining would you just wander around looking at houses? If I am going up to the corner store and it starts raining I would try to quickly get back to my house in case the rain got heavier. The context of this is that the neighborhood had a series of break-ins from kids that fit TM description; height, color, build, sex. Here was a kid that looked very out of place who seems to be on drugs who took off running for no apparent reason.
Wendy Dorival, a volunteer program coordinator for the Sanford Police Department, said she doesn't discuss whether residents should carry firearms while participating in neighborhood watch program. She added that she believed Zimmerman was a professional person who wanted to make a change in his community, which had been targeted by burglars. Zimmerman lawyer Don West asked Dorival whether a person walking in rain between houses without a particular purpose — a description of Trayvon the night of the shooting — was suspicious. Dorival said yes and added that she encourages neighbors to know who doesn't belong and to call police.
The president of the homeowners, Donald O'Brien, said he once text messaged Zimmerman with praises for a group of workers who followed a burglar. Their actions led to the arrest of a young black man, who fit TM's description who was later charged with burglaries in the neighborhood.
TM ran to his dad's house, hanging up on his friend in the process. His friend called back, he said he was at the dad's house and said he saw GZ behind him. This doesn't mean right behind him most likely he saw GZ at the far side of the sidewalk down by the cut through entrance where his truck was located a few yards a way. To picture this you have to imagine the cut through being the top part of a capital T where if you run on the top part you would end up on the street Long View Circle and if you continue on the same way you would be on a public road, but if you turned you would run down the long part of the T which would be the sidewalk dividing up the back yards of two rows of houses. Here is a map that shows the layout Here is one that is more clear. Here is another one and here is another one On the 911 call the operator asked GZ which direction the suspicious person went. At that point GZ could not see so he got out of his truck to see. He did this in response to the 911 operator's question, not because he was trying to "stalk" someone. GZ did not know if TM went towards the street marked B on the second image or did he go down the sidewalk. He wanted to be helpful to the police when they arrived by being able to say where the kid went. This is very indicative of a helpful citizen and not indicative of some stalking mad man.
When the 911 operator told him "we don't need you to do that" GZ turned his back away from Martin and headed back to his car. The operator said this as a means to keep Zimmerman safe, not as some way to protect TM. Earlier police told the neighborhood watch it was acceptable to follow suspicious persons from a safe distance. In fact some workers were able to get a person fitting TM's description arrested for burglary by following him from a safe distance. At this point GZ is turning around to go back to his truck and Martin is running back away from his dad's house, towards Zimmerman. At this point TM confronted GZ saying "why you following me." During her original deposition Rachel Jeantel said GZ responded with confusion. TM sucker punched GZ which knocked the ear piece out, causing the phone to hang up on his friend.
Martin was on top of Zimmerman which witness John Doe confirms. GZ was screaming for help, Martin's dad confirmed that the scream for help was not the voice of his son.
Martin had been kicked out of school for drugs and for possessing burglary tools. He was kicked out of his mom's house for behavior problems. He was deeply involved in street fighting, dealing drugs and was looking for someone to buy him a gun. To me it seemed like he saw himself as a thug and was looking for an excuse to fight. He was young and didn't think straight because he was on drugs. If he was sober he would have stayed at his dad's house rather than running to confront a stranger. I don't care if adults do drugs but this case illustrates clearly why children should not be allowed to do drugs. They have impaired judgement as it is due to not having a fully formed frontal cortex. Add drugs in and you have a recipe for this sort of disaster.
Rachel Jeantel, Martin's friend is not credible whatsoever. She changed her story numerous times and admitted to not taking the deposition process seriously.
In 2010 race-related beating case, George Zimmerman pushed to discipline same officers who investigated Trayvon Martin shooting Basically he went to the defense of a homeless black man he thought was beaten unfairly by the officers later responsible for investigating him for the shooting of TM.
In late 2010 and early 2011 George Zimmerman, the Hispanic Sanford, Fla., man who shot and killed 17-year-old black teen Trayvon Martin, publicly demanded discipline in a race-related beating case for at least two of the police officers who cleared him after the Feb. 26 altercation, according to records obtained by The Daily Caller.
In a letter to Seminole County NAACP president Turner Clayton, a member of the Zimmerman family wrote that George was one of “very few” in Sanford who publicly condemned the “beating of the black homeless man Sherman Ware on Dec. 4, 2010, by the son of a Sanford police officer,” who is white.
In a letter to Seminole County NAACP president Turner Clayton, a member of the Zimmerman family wrote that George was one of “very few” in Sanford who publicly condemned the “beating of the black homeless man Sherman Ware on Dec. 4, 2010, by the son of a Sanford police officer,” who is white.
susang
New member
This is my opinion and not quoting anyone else: Two men came together a
5'7" Hispanic man George Zimmerman and 5'11" Black man Trayvon Martin.
George Zimmmerman by his own admission found Tryavon Martin suspect and as Zimmerman stated he was tired of these ***** getting away with this. The two came together both suspect each other. I believe Zimmerman had his gun out at this point. Martin punched Zimmerman knocking him to the ground, this could have been an act of self defense, although Martin had know bruising on his knuckles to indicate he did this. I will concede for this argument Martin did hit Zimmerman bruising his nose and the scrapes on his head are from hitting the ground. Martin got on Zimmerman to keep him down, Zimmerman shot. This rest we know Martin is dead and Zimmerman has changed his story a couple times.
All the stuff about Martin smoking pot, Zimmerman didn't know that. The hoody, I wear a hoodie. All the stuff about Zimmerman and his past wanabee cop bigot...Martin didn't know.
Now we have to decide self-defense or manslaughter. This case will go all the way to the supreme court in the "stand your ground law".
I have never sherked my duty to be on a jury, never will, I feel very sorry for these jurors. I believe the jurors will targets either way.
Just one more thing to blame this all on the liberal media is ludicrous when using a picture received in an e-mail as portraying Trayvon Martin. The picture of a Black man with multiple tattoos, this man is known as "Game" a hip hop rapper. Many people on this forum have tattoos this does not make someone a bad person or liberal. From other threads with some of these tattooed people I'm pretty sure they aren't liberal. So who is making this political. Both sides in reality, but it doesn't help either side.
Thank you or your time
5'7" Hispanic man George Zimmerman and 5'11" Black man Trayvon Martin.
George Zimmmerman by his own admission found Tryavon Martin suspect and as Zimmerman stated he was tired of these ***** getting away with this. The two came together both suspect each other. I believe Zimmerman had his gun out at this point. Martin punched Zimmerman knocking him to the ground, this could have been an act of self defense, although Martin had know bruising on his knuckles to indicate he did this. I will concede for this argument Martin did hit Zimmerman bruising his nose and the scrapes on his head are from hitting the ground. Martin got on Zimmerman to keep him down, Zimmerman shot. This rest we know Martin is dead and Zimmerman has changed his story a couple times.
All the stuff about Martin smoking pot, Zimmerman didn't know that. The hoody, I wear a hoodie. All the stuff about Zimmerman and his past wanabee cop bigot...Martin didn't know.
Now we have to decide self-defense or manslaughter. This case will go all the way to the supreme court in the "stand your ground law".
I have never sherked my duty to be on a jury, never will, I feel very sorry for these jurors. I believe the jurors will targets either way.
Just one more thing to blame this all on the liberal media is ludicrous when using a picture received in an e-mail as portraying Trayvon Martin. The picture of a Black man with multiple tattoos, this man is known as "Game" a hip hop rapper. Many people on this forum have tattoos this does not make someone a bad person or liberal. From other threads with some of these tattooed people I'm pretty sure they aren't liberal. So who is making this political. Both sides in reality, but it doesn't help either side.
Thank you or your time
Nanci
Alien Lover
You should probably watch the trial or read the daily summaries of testimony before painting a scenario with what you imagine.
Stand your ground is not in effect in this case- GZ waived the SYG hearing. This is self defense, pure and simple. It doesn't matter who started it. The extent to which GZ was injured doesn't matter. What matters is did GZ fear for his life at the time he used lethal force to stop TM.
Stand your ground is not in effect in this case- GZ waived the SYG hearing. This is self defense, pure and simple. It doesn't matter who started it. The extent to which GZ was injured doesn't matter. What matters is did GZ fear for his life at the time he used lethal force to stop TM.
susang
New member
Why yes I do but no more then all the media. Yes I have watched the trial and the daily reviews, but not 24/7. My portrayal is really not so different from what the jurors have to base their decision. It's really a cluster **** of information. Assumptions and what 'experts' believe happened. Race no matter who started it should never have been brought into this but it was. Now the media will instigate a riot and no one will win.
Nanci
Alien Lover
He had the Skittles and Arizona watermelon pop with him. He spoke about the ______ whatever it's called, I can't remember, on his social media account. I watched the trial from 9AM to 8PM today. I have watched every day since Rich posted the link. The defense is supposed to rest tomorrow.
susang
New member
The stand your ground was brought up earlier in this thread. It may very well be self defense, not pure and simple, but none the less self defense. The fact is the jury can only take into account what they hear in court from the testimony (where by the way Martins father said he was sure who's voice it was at first. Testimony I saw). They cannot decide on social media, or any speculations, we are all making. Much like Casey Anthony, she got away with a crime, but the jury had to base their decision of what they heard. The only difference this case should never have been brought to court and put before a jury.
susang
New member
You are ahead of me last I saw in the court was the discussion about animated video admissibility.
It could be called anything the jury doesn't know that and unless it is in the court in evidence even if they do they cannot take that into account.
I think it was self defense, it should never have gone to court, but it is and the jurors should by law only take into account what is presented in the courtroom by both sides.
I have a problem/prejudice with Zimmerman I admit it, but I have to go by what is said in court.
Chip
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
What's the expletive word here? One would assume "N" from your post, but there is no record of GZ ever saying that. If you heard otherwise, you are hearing as dumb and slanted of information as whoever put out the thug with face tats. Sorry, but that was a slander piece, and a troll-level one at that. Few people bought that the Mike Tyson looking guy was actually Trayvon!!!
Why on earth would you think that? I'm not saying he didn't, but that is nothing but projection.
Actually, he did have blunt force trauma on his hands and one elbow. The forensic examiner's latest stuff is up on the first link Rich posted. Of course that could have been from a fall or any number of things, but his hands were not untouched as is going around the Twitterverse.
An email forward is not the media.Just one more thing to blame this all on the liberal media is ludicrous when using a picture received in an e-mail as portraying Trayvon Martin. The picture of a Black man with multiple tattoos, this man is known as "Game" a hip hop rapper. Many people on this forum have tattoos this does not make someone a bad person or liberal. From other threads with some of these tattooed people I'm pretty sure they aren't liberal. So who is making this political. Both sides in reality, but it doesn't help either side.
Thank you or your time
You can't just guess and make up your mind. This is a court of law, and jurors have to determine within reasonable doubt whether or not this man in an act of malice or depraved mind murdered this unarmed boy. It is my opinion that they have not only failed to make their case, but played on emotion. Which is frankly despicable in a court of law, and particularly in a racially charged case that wasn't even supposed to go up for trial. Media attention is WHY the guy is being tried. I fully expect full acquittal, and I fully expect some angry communities. If this was the case the media has been portraying, I'd root for a conviction myself. But it isn't.
susang
New member
No it wasn't the 'n' word it was the 'f' word, but I could be wrong on that. Zimmerman did say something on the phone about the ******** getting away with this.
A lot of what is on social media is projection.
I don't twitter and don't read it. I slept through part of Dimaio's testimony, but something about he couldn't say who threw the first punch. Sorry again I could be wrong on the scrapes or lack of on Martins knuckles.
An e-mail forward is not the media, but I do think the person who posted the picture went on about liberal media and how they have not posted current pictures of Martin, but they have. It is statements and e-mails like these that getting things started.
I know Martin wasn't any good, he had major issues. I'm just saying that the jury has to decide based on the law. Zimmerman will be found innocent which he may be, from what was presented in the courtroom that is the only verdict. Again it should never have gone to court. Whether it was liberal media or conservative media, they all took it and ran.
A lot of what is on social media is projection.
I don't twitter and don't read it. I slept through part of Dimaio's testimony, but something about he couldn't say who threw the first punch. Sorry again I could be wrong on the scrapes or lack of on Martins knuckles.
An e-mail forward is not the media, but I do think the person who posted the picture went on about liberal media and how they have not posted current pictures of Martin, but they have. It is statements and e-mails like these that getting things started.
I know Martin wasn't any good, he had major issues. I'm just saying that the jury has to decide based on the law. Zimmerman will be found innocent which he may be, from what was presented in the courtroom that is the only verdict. Again it should never have gone to court. Whether it was liberal media or conservative media, they all took it and ran.
Anyone looking for a "short" version of what has been going on, I think this may help -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin
Has anyone read the autopsy report? It makes for interesting reading:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf
Also: when tested, there was no evidence of George Zimmerman's DNA on Martin. It should've been all over him, I would think.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf
Also: when tested, there was no evidence of George Zimmerman's DNA on Martin. It should've been all over him, I would think.
Nanci
Alien Lover
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