AliCat37
Michelle's Candied Corns!
That sounds misleading, I've only fed him twice. A fuzzie the day I got him and an adult mouse the day after. He'll get fed another adult mouse on Tuesday.
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Petstore = Me Angry
- Thread starter AliCat37
- Start date
That sounds misleading, I've only fed him twice. A fuzzie the day I got him and an adult mouse the day after. He'll get fed another adult mouse on Tuesday.
AliCat37
Michelle's Candied Corns!
Surprisingly yes
AliCat37
Michelle's Candied Corns!
That's good to know.
He doesn't have any scarring from rodents as far as I can tell.. but I've seen this store leave live rodents in caging before. Who knows if they were just throwing rats into the cage with all three of the corns and he never got to eat.
kathylove
Pragmatic & Logical
"Is there any way we can try to get reptiles covered by the Animal Welfare Act? I know it'd take forever and be a complete long shot, but I can't stand seeing them constantly neglected and no way to call in authorities. I'd be willing to start something."
Be careful what you wish for! In my experience, more legislation USUALLY impacts the "good guys" more than the "bad guys". It may be written and proposed with the best intentions, but often does more to stop or impede serious breeders or business people who try hard to follow the law than it does to stop the scofflaws who don't really care anyway. The Endangered Species Act is a good example of legislation that hinders as at least as much as it helps, since many breeders stopped breeding exotic, listed species because of the difficulty of dealing with paperwork to transport between states.
IMO, it is usually better to seek remedies through the marketplace, media, or existing laws rather than to introduce new laws (except in rare cases). One thing this country has a surfeit of is laws on every subject and at every level - from city to state to federal.
Rest assured that any new, restrictive laws will be welcomed by the animal rights groups as a new foot in the door towards their eventual goal of banning all animal ownership of all kinds, starting with exotics. If at all possible, try to find other ways to stop or improve poor practices in reptile keeping, without involving Big Brother more than absolutely needed. If you really feel that government assistance is needed, either use existing, local animal cruelty laws, or get them amended to include reptiles if needed. You can usually have a bigger impact on local laws / ordinances than in federal laws anyway.
Be careful what you wish for! In my experience, more legislation USUALLY impacts the "good guys" more than the "bad guys". It may be written and proposed with the best intentions, but often does more to stop or impede serious breeders or business people who try hard to follow the law than it does to stop the scofflaws who don't really care anyway. The Endangered Species Act is a good example of legislation that hinders as at least as much as it helps, since many breeders stopped breeding exotic, listed species because of the difficulty of dealing with paperwork to transport between states.
IMO, it is usually better to seek remedies through the marketplace, media, or existing laws rather than to introduce new laws (except in rare cases). One thing this country has a surfeit of is laws on every subject and at every level - from city to state to federal.
Rest assured that any new, restrictive laws will be welcomed by the animal rights groups as a new foot in the door towards their eventual goal of banning all animal ownership of all kinds, starting with exotics. If at all possible, try to find other ways to stop or improve poor practices in reptile keeping, without involving Big Brother more than absolutely needed. If you really feel that government assistance is needed, either use existing, local animal cruelty laws, or get them amended to include reptiles if needed. You can usually have a bigger impact on local laws / ordinances than in federal laws anyway.
anerybree
New member
That's true, Kathy, it probably would just cause the activists to want to ban them even more. "They're being neglected, we must ban them!!!" The pet stores in my area (Columbus) aren't too bad, they're mainly PetSmarts, Petcos, and Petlands, without any circumstances too terrible. I'm definitely NOT a fan of Captive Born Reptiles though, their animals aren't kept in the best habitats and a lot have stuck sheds. They should be better though, since they specialize in reptiles, but they're worse than the chain stores.
HVani
New member
That is an excellent point Kathy.
The endangered species act has doomed several species. I know many fish now are in serious trouble because they are listed on the act and cannot be kept. Therefore no one breeds them and they continue to decline. While other species that are not on the act are thriving in the aquarium trade and are extinct in the wild(white cloud minnows, red tail sharks ect).
The endangered species act has doomed several species. I know many fish now are in serious trouble because they are listed on the act and cannot be kept. Therefore no one breeds them and they continue to decline. While other species that are not on the act are thriving in the aquarium trade and are extinct in the wild(white cloud minnows, red tail sharks ect).
Chip
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
Best way to stop pet shop neglect, right there.
kathylove
Pragmatic & Logical
"The endangered species act has doomed several species. I know many fish now are in serious trouble because they are listed on the act and cannot be kept. Therefore no one breeds them and they continue to decline. While other species that are not on the act are thriving in the aquarium trade and are extinct in the wild(white cloud minnows, red tail sharks ect)."
I thought about whether I should add more. I almost didn't - but just couldn't help myself. Sorry for the soapbox speech!
Sadly true! The U. S. (= UNITED STATES) Endangered Species Act unfortunately lists lots on NON U.S. species. It seems to be another example of our Big Brother seeking to be the world's policemen. I can understand listing and policing our native species, even though that is often done in a counter productive way, too. But by listing exotic species, such as radiated tortoises, among many others, it only serves to hinder their success. Most of those exotics are already listed on CITES, which deals with international import / export. Once a CITES animal is in this country, breeders don't have to worry about paperwork within the US. But if it listed on the ESA (either instead, or in addition to CITES), THEN we have deal with red tape just to sell a c.b. baby across a state line. Redundant and counter productive! I have personally avoided keeping and breeding ESA animals - even though I would enjoy breeding radiated tortoises and a few other species. And some breeders have sold off their stock of listed species because they exhausted the market in their own state and didn't want to deal with the paperwork. How is that logical or helpful, either for the species, or for our economy?
Please keep this in mind when proposing or voting on new laws. I am NOT talking about ONLY animal laws! Many, if not most, new legislation has a LOT of unintended consequences. Even something as seemingly helpful as anti smoking laws doesn't always need the hand of Big Brother to succeed. Before it was passed in Florida, many restaurants had decided on their own to go smoke free. Nobody hates breathing smoke more than I do, so I felt good about patronizing those places whenever possible. But once government stepped in and decided for all business, then those who really prospered by serving smokers had no choice. I would so much prefer to make those decisions for myself! Other non smoking friends thought I was crazy for voting against the smoking ban, but for some reason they couldn't see the logic of keeping government out of our business when we were seeing success without their heavy hand on our shoulders.
So please choose carefully anytime a vote comes up on ANY subject that will give more power to government and less to YOU, the individual. Think about unintended consequences. If there is any way to settle matters without government interference, then please choose the route of personal freedom and personal responsibility. Save Big Brother for when there is no other choice that will accomplish something REALLY important.
Ok - rant over - sorry! Back to the regular programming, lol!
I thought about whether I should add more. I almost didn't - but just couldn't help myself. Sorry for the soapbox speech!
Sadly true! The U. S. (= UNITED STATES) Endangered Species Act unfortunately lists lots on NON U.S. species. It seems to be another example of our Big Brother seeking to be the world's policemen. I can understand listing and policing our native species, even though that is often done in a counter productive way, too. But by listing exotic species, such as radiated tortoises, among many others, it only serves to hinder their success. Most of those exotics are already listed on CITES, which deals with international import / export. Once a CITES animal is in this country, breeders don't have to worry about paperwork within the US. But if it listed on the ESA (either instead, or in addition to CITES), THEN we have deal with red tape just to sell a c.b. baby across a state line. Redundant and counter productive! I have personally avoided keeping and breeding ESA animals - even though I would enjoy breeding radiated tortoises and a few other species. And some breeders have sold off their stock of listed species because they exhausted the market in their own state and didn't want to deal with the paperwork. How is that logical or helpful, either for the species, or for our economy?
Please keep this in mind when proposing or voting on new laws. I am NOT talking about ONLY animal laws! Many, if not most, new legislation has a LOT of unintended consequences. Even something as seemingly helpful as anti smoking laws doesn't always need the hand of Big Brother to succeed. Before it was passed in Florida, many restaurants had decided on their own to go smoke free. Nobody hates breathing smoke more than I do, so I felt good about patronizing those places whenever possible. But once government stepped in and decided for all business, then those who really prospered by serving smokers had no choice. I would so much prefer to make those decisions for myself! Other non smoking friends thought I was crazy for voting against the smoking ban, but for some reason they couldn't see the logic of keeping government out of our business when we were seeing success without their heavy hand on our shoulders.
So please choose carefully anytime a vote comes up on ANY subject that will give more power to government and less to YOU, the individual. Think about unintended consequences. If there is any way to settle matters without government interference, then please choose the route of personal freedom and personal responsibility. Save Big Brother for when there is no other choice that will accomplish something REALLY important.
Ok - rant over - sorry! Back to the regular programming, lol!
MegF.
That's for sale???
It would be nice however to be able to do something about outright neglect and abuse of a reptile. If they simply added them into existing animal cruelty laws that apply to all other animals it wouldn't restrict the keeping of them, just make starving them and keeping them in horrible conditions illegal. they deserve the same protections that any dog or cat would get. If this shop had a starving puppy or kitten in there you can bet someone would do something...a snake...nah, not our problem.
^^ WSS. I think somehow people think that because they are cold blooded and/or because they don't seek out out human companionship they don't have feelings
kathylove
Pragmatic & Logical
Yes, they should be covered by the same anti cruelty laws as other animals. I bet that they probably are in some places. Hopefully, those laws won't be enforced by dog people who think that snakes need to be fed every day and need mammal sized cages to live in. Some states have actually formulated guidelines for cage sizes and care, and have even used input from keepers and breeders, believe it or not!
AliCat37
Michelle's Candied Corns!
UGH!!!!!!!!!
I went to our "lovely" local pet store today to get crickets for Toothless, I SERIOUSLY wish there was some other place close by that sells feeder insects. I can't buy them in bulk from the internet because Toothless only eats maybe once a month, and it's a huge waste of money to buy $50 of crickets that all die before he even decides to try one.
So, I took a look around the pet store like I always do, and nothing different from usual. Their corn snake cage got a new make over, but there are still like 10 in there, and they are all skeletons with scales, just like Shivers was. They had a couple of kings that are housed alone, and one of them was sitting in its water bowl, and you could see the mites crawling over its face. Their ball pythons are all flakey and dehydrated, and they have a retic who is mouth breathing, but then I saw a BEAUTIFUL blue and green Blue Tongue skink, colors I have never seen before. So I went over to look at the skink, which was in a cage DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THEIR COUNTER, and I was greeted by the smell of death. I looked at the skink, and it's eyes were sunken in, eaten by crickets, and it was obviously decaying. Who knows how long it had been dead. Other animals in there had no water until a customer mentioned it, then the slime ball who runs the place ordered some teenager to get them water. He didn't even clean out the bowl!! He just poured new water into it, when the bowl was filled with dirt and poo! I HATE THAT PLACE!!!!! Worst part is, no one will do ANYTHING about it! GAH!
Sorry for the venting, but it just irritates me that this place still gets away with this! They even were allowed to keep selling puppies and kittens when our city banned it!
I went to our "lovely" local pet store today to get crickets for Toothless, I SERIOUSLY wish there was some other place close by that sells feeder insects. I can't buy them in bulk from the internet because Toothless only eats maybe once a month, and it's a huge waste of money to buy $50 of crickets that all die before he even decides to try one.
So, I took a look around the pet store like I always do, and nothing different from usual. Their corn snake cage got a new make over, but there are still like 10 in there, and they are all skeletons with scales, just like Shivers was. They had a couple of kings that are housed alone, and one of them was sitting in its water bowl, and you could see the mites crawling over its face. Their ball pythons are all flakey and dehydrated, and they have a retic who is mouth breathing, but then I saw a BEAUTIFUL blue and green Blue Tongue skink, colors I have never seen before. So I went over to look at the skink, which was in a cage DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THEIR COUNTER, and I was greeted by the smell of death. I looked at the skink, and it's eyes were sunken in, eaten by crickets, and it was obviously decaying. Who knows how long it had been dead. Other animals in there had no water until a customer mentioned it, then the slime ball who runs the place ordered some teenager to get them water. He didn't even clean out the bowl!! He just poured new water into it, when the bowl was filled with dirt and poo! I HATE THAT PLACE!!!!! Worst part is, no one will do ANYTHING about it! GAH!
Sorry for the venting, but it just irritates me that this place still gets away with this! They even were allowed to keep selling puppies and kittens when our city banned it!
AliCat37
Michelle's Candied Corns!
I used to have them! He did eat them for quite a while, but he stopped eating them when he stopped eating everything else (he is just now starting to eat again). Unfortunately, I am still finding dubias running around the house from the last time I had them. I would love to have them again, just worry about them getting out again.
MegF.
That's for sale???
Why do you not report that? It's obvious they are not keeping the animals to any type of standard....even the health department would get them for having dead animals laying in there.
I'd take pictures and start making phone calls...to as many people as you can...write to the paper...do what you have to do...post the name of this place on Facebook..whatever is necessary to get people to take notice and give them hell....which translates to money out of their pockets...
I'd take pictures and start making phone calls...to as many people as you can...write to the paper...do what you have to do...post the name of this place on Facebook..whatever is necessary to get people to take notice and give them hell....which translates to money out of their pockets...