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Help me ID a new arrival

cguarino30

cguarino30

New member
This is a female I recently acquired, and I'm trying to nail down her exact morph. The genes in play are amel, ultra, sunkissed, and caramel, from a quad het x quad het breeding. Let me know if there are any other pictures I could take to help with the ID. Thanks a bunch.
 

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Chris,
Judging from the close up of the eyes and her lighter coloration, I would say Ultra Caramel over Caramel.
I defiantly don't see Sunkissed or Ultramel (Golddust).

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
If motley had been an option, I too would have suggested Honey motley. Without motley in the mix, the saddles are not the right shape for sunkissed.
 
Walter Smith said:
Chris,
Judging from the close up of the eyes and her lighter coloration, I would say Ultra Caramel over Caramel.
I defiantly don't see Sunkissed or Ultramel (Golddust).

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
Click to expand...


Thanks, Walter. I definitely see what you are talking about. I was told that the one parent was het ultra and the other was het amel, so I hadn't even considered that she might be full ultra, but now that you mention it, I can definitely see the possibility. I had only been comparing her to gold dusts, and the colors and eyes hadn't been matching up, but now, I'll compare her to some ultra caramels. Thanks.
 
Crazy Colubrids said:
Honey Motley? Just a guess.
Click to expand...

Shiari said:
If motley had been an option, I too would have suggested Honey motley. Without motley in the mix, the saddles are not the right shape for sunkissed.
Click to expand...

It's interesting that you would metion this, as both parents were, actually, het motley. The reason I didn't bother to mention it is that she has clear, black, belly checkers. Could she still be motley?

Also, Shiari, please explain what you mean about the saddle shape with regard to sunkissed and motley. I'm not familiar with how motley affects saddle shape in sunkisseds. Thanks.
 
In a standard sunkissed, the edges of the saddles are sharply squared off. They look like this: [___] [___] rather than the normal shape of this: )____( )____(. In a non-sunkissed, the edges of the saddles reach for the adjacent saddle.

When you add motley to sunkissed, it makes the saddle edges behave more like a non-sunkissed's saddles but there's still a hint of 'motley' and 'sunkissed' showing through the more "normal" markings.

http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/sunkissed_motley/

Sunkissed motleys CAN have checkers.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101327&highlight=sunkissed+motley+checkers

2nd post down has sunkissed mots with checkers.
 
Really? Now that is interesting. There really is no end to the fun with corn snake genetics, is there. I'll have to inspect the belly a little more thoroughly now. I just saw some checkers and thought, "oh well, motley". Shows what I know. I'll take some belly pics tomorrow and post them.
 
cguarino30 said:
This is a female I recently acquired, and I'm trying to nail down her exact morph. The genes in play are amel, ultra, sunkissed, and caramel, from a quad het x quad het breeding. Let me know if there are any other pictures I could take to help with the ID. Thanks a bunch.
Click to expand...

cguarino30 said:
Thanks, Walter. I definitely see what you are talking about. I was told that the one parent was het ultra and the other was het amel, so I hadn't even considered that she might be full ultra, but now that you mention it, I can definitely see the possibility. I had only been comparing her to gold dusts, and the colors and eyes hadn't been matching up, but now, I'll compare her to some ultra caramels. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'm a little confused now.

In the top quote it mentions that the genes (4) at play are Amel Ultra Sunkissed & Caramel (from a quad het X quad het breeding) which tells me BOTH parents each carry the 4 repective genes......................which could possibly throw Ultra Caramels.

Now the second quote says one parent is het Amel & one parent is het Ultra...........in which case doen not make the parents quad hets and would produce Amels & Ultramels (in combination with Caramel....Butters & Golddusts) and no way would produce Ultras.

Do you know or can you find out the phenotypes of all the siblings??
Knowing all of what was produced in the clutch should help us come to a better guesstimation...........LOL, is that a word ??

Also are the parents normals/classics or do they have a visual color/pattern phenotype ??

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Walter Smith said:
Ok, I'm a little confused now.

In the top quote it mentions that the genes (4) at play are Amel Ultra Sunkissed & Caramel (from a quad het X quad het breeding) which tells me BOTH parents each carry the 4 repective genes......................which could possibly throw Ultra Caramels.

Now the second quote says one parent is het Amel & one parent is het Ultra...........in which case doen not make the parents quad hets and would produce Amels & Ultramels (in combination with Caramel....Butters & Golddusts) and no way would produce Ultras.

Do you know or can you find out the phenotypes of all the siblings??
Knowing all of what was produced in the clutch should help us come to a better guesstimation...........LOL, is that a word ??

Also are the parents normals/classics or do they have a visual color/pattern phenotype ??

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
Click to expand...

Sorry about the confusion. That is totally my fault. The Quad hets are:

classic het amel, caramel, sunkissed, and motley
classic het ultra, caramel, sunkissed, and motley

I was lazy and left out the fourth het, because I ignorantly believed that the belly checkers ruled out motley, and it was therefore not a possibility.

However, all of this information was given to my by the breeder, so I have no way of verifying it. I do know that some of the siblings produced were sunkissed, and some were motley. I do not know for sure if any ultramels or amels or ultras were produced, and to my knowledge, this was the only caramel produced (I think we can all agree that she is caramel). I apologize for any confusion here. Totally my bad.

I'll go take some more pictures in a moment and upload them.
 
Ok, here are two new pictures, one of which is a shot of the belly checkers. Please let me know if there are any other details which may help. Thanks to all again for continued assistance.
 

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cguarino30 said:
Sorry about the confusion. That is totally my fault. The Quad hets are:

classic het amel, caramel, sunkissed, and motley
classic het ultra, caramel, sunkissed, and motley

I was lazy and left out the fourth het, because I ignorantly believed that the belly checkers ruled out motley, and it was therefore not a possibility.

However, all of this information was given to my by the breeder, so I have no way of verifying it. I do know that some of the siblings produced were sunkissed, and some were motley. I do not know for sure if any ultramels or amels or ultras were produced, and to my knowledge, this was the only caramel produced (I think we can all agree that she is caramel). I apologize for any confusion here. Totally my bad.

I'll go take some more pictures in a moment and upload them.
Click to expand...

No problem Chris, just trying to help out as much as possible and now knowing the exact genes involved in the parents, that changes things.

In one way that, one parent is het Amel & the other parent is het Ultra, there is no way any Ultras would be produced, so we can rule out my first thought of it being a Ultra Caramel (which I was going by the first set of hets given for both parents.... Amel, Ultra, Sunkissed, Caramel)

I'm thinking more on the lines now of her being a Caramel.
I still don't see Sunkissed phenotypically and that seems to be a bit to much belly checks to be Motley..........IMHO ;)

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Thanks Walter. I'm not 100% sure how sure the breeder was about the amel and ultra hets, especially since there were no ultramel offspring in the clutch, so your ultra thoughts may still be valid. I think this girl might be a bit of a mystery until I can do some test breeding...
 
cguarino30 said:
Thanks Walter. I'm not 100% sure how sure the breeder was about the amel and ultra hets, especially since there were no ultramel offspring in the clutch, so your ultra thoughts may still be valid. I think this girl might be a bit of a mystery until I can do some test breeding...
Click to expand...

Yeah, if the breeder is correct, there should have been Ultramels and/or Golddusts in the clutch,
then again with that many genes involved it would also depend on the number of eggs in the clutch that hatched.

One way to know for sure if she is a homo Ultra is to breed her to a Amel. That would give you 100% varification for sure.

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
cguarino30 said:
Good thinking. I'll have to pick out a good test male for her and see what happens. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

You are welcome.
Actually, a Butter would be the best choice. If she is homo Ultra at least everything produced will be Caramel based.

Even better.....a Butter Motley, Saffron or Saffron Motley
This way you can test for more than one of the inloved genes all in one breeding ;)

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
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