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WSCC's 2015 BREEDING SEASON !!

Jessicat said:
Walter, if you get any more crazy high expressions are you going to keep them all or offer any for sale? :poke: :crazy02:
My wallet if you are --->:smash:
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Jess,
it all depends on how "crazy high" it is. Probably anything like the girl I posted will be offered, BUT if any have a higher expression or actually give me a really good crossover (white areas connecting over the dorsal) I would be keeping those ;)

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
DuxorW said:
Have you ever done a cross like #64 (ultramel okeetee x fluorescent reverse) before? I think I like that fluorescent reverse Okeetee even more than extreme reverse Okeetees. The extremes are awesome in their own right but it seems like their white is kind of an off-white with pale yellow/greenish undertone whereas the fluorescent is a stark white. Anyways I can't wait to see the ultramel Okeetees that come from that.

Also, I'm kind of surprised how much an ultramel Miami looks like a regular Miami!
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Dustin,
I did breed that pair once before in 2013, however I did not holdback any of the offspring.
I know what ya mean, my ERO displays that lime green coloration as well.

I know right, I've thought the same thing.
She is the one who produces my Ultramel Candycanes when bred to a Candycane and I was thinking she may actually be a ULTRA Miami....BUT she was produced from:

Amel het Caramel Cinder (produced and acquired from Carol Huddleston) X Ultramel het Caramel Bloodred (produced by myself)

This breeding produced ONLY Amels & Ultramels (in visual combines with respective genes) so that eliminates the thinking of her being a ULTRA.
She has to be an Ultramel.

The thing is, I know waaaaaaay back when Carol got her first (surprise) Cinders from snakes she acquired from Rich Z., one of the first things she did with those Cinders was bred it into her Miami lines, so ALOT of if not most of Carols Cinders produced later on down the line have Miami blood in them.
I believe this is where my girl gets her looks and the Ultramel Candycanes I'm producing from her are more refined.

I also believe this is the reason the Butters I produce from my Buttermint projects have a more white ground color rather then the typical yellow we see in Butters.

My first Buttermints came from a 1.1 pair of Amels 100% het Caramel Cinder that I acquired from Carol as well, so what I'm getting at is I believe my Buttermints ALSO have Mimai blood in them.

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
I also love your female lava het cinder which I'm guessing also has Miami in her, she's fantastic!
 
DuxorW said:
I also love your female lava het cinder which I'm guessing also has Miami in her, she's fantastic!
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Very possible. She was also acquired from Carol.

There is also this guy, which I believe to be a Ultramel Candycane Cinder
He was produced from my Buttermint X Ultramel Miami............two of which we are talking about ;)

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 

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Dustin,
here are more to tag to my theory.

Pic 1) Ultramel Candycane ~ full sibling to the Ultramel CC Cinder above

Pic 2) Miami Caramel ~ 1/2 sibling to above sired by my Buttermint

Pic 3) for lack of better term ~ male Buttercane ~ 1/2 sibling to above sired by my Buttermint
Pic 4) for lack of better term ~ female Buttercane ~ 1/2 sibling to above sired by my Buttermint.

As you can see they ALL have that Miami ground coloration....white (red eyes) & grey (black eyes)
I'm going to keep plugging away at these to refine them even more ;)

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 

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Last edited:
Very nice! Looking at that ultramel candycane cinder, do you think cinders that are higher red tend to produce offspring with more red? I know you showed some ultramel cinders that were high and low red. Does it just vary within a litter, or do you think it is heritable? I ask because I have a peppermint that is extremely vibrantly red compared to what I see in other people's photos.
 
DuxorW said:
Very nice! Looking at that ultramel candycane cinder, do you think cinders that are higher red tend to produce offspring with more red? I know you showed some ultramel cinders that were high and low red. Does it just vary within a litter, or do you think it is heritable? I ask because I have a peppermint that is extremely vibrantly red compared to what I see in other people's photos.
Click to expand...

To be honest Dustin, I think there needs to be some testing to do to determine this. The reason I say that is, when the first Cinders were produced (by Rich Z.) some showed red and some didn't and this was before Carol incorporated them into Miami.

Now, could the Miami bloodline have increased the reds shown in Cinders, I think so.
We will defiantly see in the coming years with these I have here because as I mentioned I'm going to refine these even further by breeding them back to full fledged Miamis. It's not really the reds that are tough though, it's getting the typical orange ground coloration out of the equation ;)

When ever you are working on a Miami project it takes YEARS to achieve you goal (white/grey ground color), because you have to re-introduce that full Miami bloodline.
Let's face it, we are dealing with a selective bred line, not a recessive gene.
I have one going that will be 6 years in the making for my target and finally getting close to the end, well I'm hoping so....LOL
 
Walter Smith said:
Jess,
it all depends on how "crazy high" it is. Probably anything like the girl I posted will be offered, BUT if any have a higher expression or actually give me a really good crossover (white areas connecting over the dorsal) I would be keeping those ;)

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
Click to expand...

Dang I guess I kind of suspected that! Well I'll keep my eye out for high expression non keepers and just admire your girl from a far. :p
 
I'm happy to see that the Miami Tessera female you got from me is being paired again! That het Amel gene sure was a happy surprise! I have a couple years for some of my girls to grow up, so I won't be testing her brother Brokk for Amel just yet.

I'm curious about the "Chyenne Bloodred" pairings you have. Is that supposed be Cayenne Fire, with the Red Factor, or is that something else? I haven't heard of Chyenne, and noticed you have a couple of those pairings. Is that a new/other red gene?
 
MysticExotics said:
I'm happy to see that the Miami Tessera female you got from me is being paired again! That het Amel gene sure was a happy surprise! I have a couple years for some of my girls to grow up, so I won't be testing her brother Brokk for Amel just yet.
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I have one of her daughters, I believe, and she is perfect!
 
DuxorW said:
I have one of her daughters, I believe, and she is perfect!
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One of the babies from her clutch last year?
That's cool! Please post progression pics!

Tara and I were very happy with the first generation of Miami Tessera's (that my male, Brokk, and Walter's female) came from. They turned out better than we expected and all of the 2nd generation babies I have seen from that original pairing (my Miami female to Tara's SMR Okeetee Tessera) are all great!

Walter had the clutch last year that proved out het Amel, which was really cool, (the repeat pairing, it looks like), a local friend of mine paired his female Miami Tessera to a Cinder male (which I now have one of those babies), and my 2nd generation, out of Brokk and an unrelated LBR line Miami all turned out fabulous!

I am really looking forward to what subsequent generations will end up like! :)
 
Yes, I bought a group of "boilers" from Walter that included a miami tessera het amel, candycane tessera, saffron 66% ph stripe, ultramel okeetee, and a lava tessera het caramel. Surprisingly they all ate unboiled pinks for me the first try and have been great eaters since.

Someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse on the candycane tessera so I parted with her. Since I have the miami tessera het amel, I really didn't *need* both. I don't have a suitable male lined up for her but will probably get one of Walter's ultramel candycanes. And I will certainly post some pictures as she grows.
 
DuxorW said:
Yes, I bought a group of "boilers" from Walter that included a miami tessera het amel, candycane tessera, saffron 66% ph stripe, ultramel okeetee, and a lava tessera het caramel. Surprisingly they all ate unboiled pinks for me the first try and have been great eaters since.

Someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse on the candycane tessera so I parted with her. Since I have the miami tessera het amel, I really didn't *need* both. I don't have a suitable male lined up for her but will probably get one of Walter's ultramel candycanes. And I will certainly post some pictures as she grows.
Click to expand...
Very cool! I look forward to seeing pics!

I have one female holdback from my 2nd generation Miami Tessera's, a het Cinder male from one of Brokk's siblings, and of course I still have Brokk. I also have a few other Miami's that I will be working into the project down the road. :)
 
Jessicat said:
Dang I guess I kind of suspected that! Well I'll keep my eye out for high expression non keepers and just admire your girl from a far. :p
Click to expand...

Well as mentioned, if I get any that are a little less or even equal her expression, I will be offering those available ;)

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
MysticExotics said:
I'm happy to see that the Miami Tessera female you got from me is being paired again! That het Amel gene sure was a happy surprise! I have a couple years for some of my girls to grow up, so I won't be testing her brother Brokk for Amel just yet.

I'm curious about the "Chyenne Bloodred" pairings you have. Is that supposed be Cayenne Fire, with the Red Factor, or is that something else? I haven't heard of Chyenne, and noticed you have a couple of those pairings. Is that a new/other red gene?
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what it is, Chyenne Fire with the red factor.

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
I can't stop looking through your pairings. Wow! Beautiful specimens. I must say that just recognizing the morphs is a science in itself.
 
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