Platinums . . .

[FunkyRes]

Heh wow - just realized, you are the original OP - so *you* can call it whatever you want.
Either it takes or it doesn't.

 

[toyah]

So there's now a name for anery-charcoal-hypo, but not one for plain old anery-charcoal. Weird how some double combos get overlooked when the triple gets a name (caramel blood + sulphur as another example).

 

[El Jefe]

So there's now a name for anery-charcoal-hypo, but not one for plain old anery-charcoal. Weird how some double combos get overlooked when the triple gets a name (caramel blood + sulphur as another example).

I think this is mainly because there are not a lot of KNOWN anery charcoals out there. There are a bunch of suspected but I don't think anyone has taken the time to really test them out and get a known line going. Plus, when it is done you have an anery charcoal which can confuse things when grouped with other projects.

All that being said, I have a suspected one that will be proven this year so if she is an anery charcoal I'll start a new naming thread! :dancer:

 

[toyah]

I think this is mainly because there are not a lot of KNOWN anery charcoals out there. There are a bunch of suspected but I don't think anyone has taken the time to really test them out and get a known line going. Plus, when it is done you have an anery charcoal which can confuse things when grouped with other projects.

All that being said, I have a suspected one that will be proven this year so if she is an anery charcoal I'll start a new naming thread! :dancer:

I think Lexcorn has a few known (from pedigree) anery-charcoals around, we must bug her into posting more photos

 

[Drizzt80]

So there's now a name for anery-charcoal-hypo, but not one for plain old anery-charcoal. Weird how some double combos get overlooked when the triple gets a name (caramel blood + sulphur as another example).

I'm gonna go a different direction and say that Anery Charcoal is "easier" to say than Anery Charcoal Hypo. Sure it's only a couple extra syllables, but isn't today's society all about speed and getting your information (right or wrong mind you) faster?! Which leads me to this:

One situation which seems to be developing lately is some sort of race to name something new regardless of the advisability of doing so before those necessary ducks have all lined up in a row.

It's pretty interesting the number of names you see cropping up everywhere to describe 'new' snakes.

I agree with both statements 100% but at the same time isn't that the nature of today's "internet beast"?!?! Everyone wants their information at the snap of the finger. Regardless of the time taken to prove a new gene, visually see the changes a snake goes through to adult coloration, do breeding trials and tests through an F2 or greater generation . . . society (ie. customer) wants all that done yesterday or not at all. :shrugs: Not saying it's right, but that's the majority now.

Lastly:

I read elsewhere . . . that Chuck may have used it for hypo pewters as well. I don't see it in the 2008 CMG so maybe he decided against it for his combo.

The reason I posted in this thread is solely because it seemed that maybe the name was already in use, so I just wanted to advise the OP to that - so he could contact Chuck and find out.

My only real confusion is that twice now you have brought up Charlie's name. :shrugs: I don't get it. He chooses not to engage in discussions here (I choose not to engage in discussions there, so be it). As for him using it already . . . all you have to do is go to his website, check out his collection and see that his Hypo Pewters are listed as: Hypo Pewters. Of course I don't have the name Platinum listed at my site for Phantom Anerys either, but that's because I just asked about the name 2 days ago. Did I miss something where Charlie makes the decisions on names because he writes a booK or is it for another reason? I'm truly confused by the need for his involvement in the discussion, enlighten me. :shrugs: Besides, from what my poor memory recalls, I think Carol Huddleston displayed some of the first pictures of hatchling Hypo Pewters around here . .. I could be wrong on that.

D80

 

[toyah]

I'm gonna go a different direction and say that Anery Charcoal is "easier" to say than Anery Charcoal Hypo. Sure it's only a couple extra syllables, but isn't today's society all about speed and getting your information (right or wrong mind you) faster?!

I guess. I'd previously seen anery charcoal hypo written as anery phantom though, which is the same speed for me as anery charcoal

For the record - I love trade names! My personal preference would be for every visually distinguishable combination of genes to have its own name.

I agree with both statements 100% but at the same time isn't that the nature of today's "internet beast"?!?! Everyone wants their information at the snap of the finger. Regardless of the time taken to prove a new gene, visually see the changes a snake goes through to adult coloration, do breeding trials and tests through an F2 or greater generation . . . society (ie. customer) wants all that done yesterday or not at all. :shrugs: Not saying it's right, but that's the majority now.

I agree - but I do think on the other side that if people waited until there were plenty of adults before providing a name, then by that time people would be saying "but we're used to calling them by their combination name now" - like the hypo lavender.

Has a trade name ever been put forward for hypo bloodred, or is the hypo gene just some sort of poor cousin that isn't often allowed its own trade combo names?

 

[VinnyJ]

Lastly:My only real confusion is that twice now you have brought up Charlie's name. :shrugs: I don't get it. He chooses not to engage in discussions here (I choose not to engage in discussions there, so be it). As for him using it already . . . all you have to do is go to his website, check out his collection and see that his Hypo Pewters are listed as: Hypo Pewters. Of course I don't have the name Platinum listed at my site for Phantom Anerys either, but that's because I just asked about the name 2 days ago. Did I miss something where Charlie makes the decisions on names because he writes a booK or is it for another reason? I'm truly confused by the need for his involvement in the discussion, enlighten me. :shrugs: Besides, from what my poor memory recalls, I think Carol Huddleston displayed some of the first pictures of hatchling Hypo Pewters around here . .. I could be wrong on that.

D80

When it comes to naming things it really doesn't matter to me. As long as I personally know what things are, genetically speaking, and what other's mean when they say "I have a platinum". In the statement above you seem a little irritated that Chuck's name has been brought in to the conversation. It doesn't matter that Chuck writes a book every year or where he participates or not. As you stated... you just asked... and someone told you that the name is in use. You can choose another name or do like what was done with granites and use platinum any way regardless if someone is using it or not. As many have said the community as a whole will decide to use it or not. If you're serious about using the name platinum why not send Chuck an email... seems the nice way to go about it now that you've been informed that he's using the name platinum. Just my 2 cents. :shrugs:

 

[MichellesCreatures]

Ok am I the only old school person who still believes the person who first creates the new gene combo gets to name it? Which was already established as Rich Z, and he already gave his nod to the name?
I mean in all seriousness he probably has TONS of things we dont even know about......so by the time other people create stuff, its old news to him!

 

[FunkyRes]

I'm not even sure that Chuck is using it - I only read that he had considered using it, and found one other site where someone asked what a platinum was and hypo pewter was given as the answer. It could be that Chuck decided not to use it - in which case there would be (AFAIK) zero conflict. An e-mail to him may clear it up.

I do agree that "hypo charcoal anery" is a mouthful and would make a bad trade name. I also agree that a trade name should be used to distinguish it from Phantom just so that the buyers of these snakes have a better understanding of the genotype. And I agree that Platinum is a nice name for them.

As far as my comment on adjective Phantom - that just would be my preference. I would call them Anery Phantom if it was up to me, but it's not. Charcoal Ghost I would personally not use because they definitely look different than a Ghost. I only expressed my preference because this is an internet forum and that's what a forum asking about a potential trade name is for.

I did not mean to step on anyones toes.

Whatever they are called though, I do think testing needs to be done to see if their really is a phenotype difference between Platinum and Phantom by comparing specimens from the same lineage. I would do it myself if I had the rack space and specimens, I don't have either.

 

[VinnyJ]

Ok am I the only old school person who still believes the person who first creates the new gene combo gets to name it? Which was already established as Rich Z, and he already gave his nod to the name?

I agree completely as long as someone isn't already using the name.

I'm completely happy with my Plasma(Mocha + Bloodred). :grin01: JK.

 

[Drizzt80]

I'm not even sure that Chuck is using it - I only read that he had considered using it, and found one other site where someone asked what a platinum was and hypo pewter was given as the answer.

I did not mean to step on anyones toes.

:shrugs: Good enough for me.

In the statement above you seem a little irritated that Chuck's name has been brought in to the conversation. It doesn't matter that Chuck writes a book every year or where he participates or not. As you stated... you just asked... and someone told you that the name is in use.

Thanks for the comments Vinny. Yeah, I'm man enough to admit that his name being brought into the conversation is a little irritating. :shrugs:

D80

 

[Drizzt80]

Whatever they are called though, I do think testing needs to be done to see if their really is a phenotype difference between Platinum and Phantom by comparing specimens from the same lineage.

Okay, so let's make a call for people to post some adult Phantoms that we can compare. I have posted one link that does compare a Phantom to a known Phantom Anery/Platinum, and it's very noticeable. I also agree and understand that it's just two snakes being compared. Again, I know of only 5 known Phantom Anery/Platinums. Carol has Grandma P who's an adult. My two that I kept are yearlings and are already pretty darn bright in coloration (though most juveniles are I guess), and I sold two females last season.

Phantoms should be more common so at least we can get some adult examples of those. I did a search, couldn't find many but at the same time I didn't quite have the time to do a detailed search the last two nights. My bad.

Anyone? Got some good quality pure (as in no suspected Anery) Phantom adult pics they could share here? (Rich, you gotta stay out of this, your's are suspect cause they may be Phantom Anerys! :sidestep: J/K)

D80

 

[Rich Z]

Anyone? Got some good quality pure (as in no suspected Anery) Phantom adult pics they could share here? (Rich, you gotta stay out of this, your's are suspect cause they may be Phantom Anerys! :sidestep: J/K)

D80

Heck, I couldn't participate anyway. I believe I sold off all my Charcoal Ghosts (Phantoms) over the last couple of years. It just wasn't a project I could see any sense in continuing with all the other stuff competing for my time around here.

 

[El Jefe]

Ok am I the only old school person who still believes the person who first creates the new gene combo gets to name it? Which was already established as Rich Z, and he already gave his nod to the name?
I mean in all seriousness he probably has TONS of things we dont even know about......so by the time other people create stuff, its old news to him!

I don't think you are alone here but I don't think it is always the 'first' person to produce something either. I do, however, think you need to be somewhere in the top few people to name it. I think part of the industry fun here is making that 'new' morph. When you are making something 'new' some people feel that a new name is needed as well. Fine and dandy if you are one of the few people who have produced it.

But....in the end the marketplace will have some say as well as books, and the 'big' people that produce cornsnakes. Face it...if Rich, Kathy, Don and probably a few others produce something and call it something...the name will probably have a good chance of sticking. If Rip Van Winkle of Deep Sleep Snakes names it something...well....it better be a good name and he better be near the front of the line and just then may he be lucky enough to have it stick.
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[TandJ]

Oh man, it was intended to be a satire at the amount of , IMHO, stupid names being tossed out.. Hence, my jesting poke was Creamsicko's and well looking for three nominations to elect the name platnium for such morph.. No use in getting our panties tied in bunches and lumps.. *LOL* Of course we can all review Granites and Terrezo's.. Talk about a morph name hijacking.. *LOL*

Humour people.. Humour..

I really wanted to post some pretty wild flowers to make some peace here, but hell, I couldn't find any in the desert at this time of the year.. However I can contribute with a nice Phantom picture or two.. A nice young adult that does not look anything like an Anery A..

Oh my, we can see some yellow too..

Just remember, I intended to try to be funny.. *LOL* Although it might have been severely cryptic and/or silly of me to make such a jest earlier this week..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[Drizzt80]

However I can contribute with a nice Phantom picture or two.. A nice young adult that does not look anything like an Anery A.

Thanks Tim for the pictures! Just was I was looking for. You da man!

D80

 

[Eli173]

Here is one of those you let go of last year (Item#PG07030). There is a little bit of yellow on the neck that started coming in after these month old photos were taken.

 

[Weebonilass]

Here is one of those you let go of last year (Item#PG07030). There is a little bit of yellow on the neck that started coming in after these month old photos were taken.

One Brent let go of? Dat's purdy

 

[Rich Z]

Actually, I believe any cultivar can be renamed at any time, if a sufficiently good name is picked and offered. For instance, "Charcoals" were not originally called by that name at all. Originally it was "Pine Island Anerythristic". Then "Muted Anerythristic". After that, just "Type 'B' Anerythristic", which stuck for a very long time.

It was pure happenstance that I was talking to someone in Canada one day and he (I have no recollection of a name here) mentioned people in his area were calling regular Anerythristics (or maybe it was the Type B) as "Charcoal Corns". I personally found the name very appealing, and simply started calling the Type B Anerythristics as "Charcoals". There was no formal announcement, or a poll taken, or anything of that nature. The name just seemed to be FITTING, and even long after the cultivar itself was available commercially, the name simply switched over to the newer and obviously BETTER name that was offered.

So obviously names can change without any overt intention to change them. Just as names can come into being on something new without the necessity of trying to force a particular name on anyone. Basically, if a new name just makes your skin crawl to even hear it, no one is going to force you at gunpoint to use that name.

Firstly one needs to consider the PURPOSE of naming a new cultivar (or even renaming an old one). If the name or rename does not satisfy the criteria which makes that purpose valid, then what is the point? To name something simply to name it for some egotistical purpose? Seriously, I doubt that 20 years from now, anyone will remember the PERSON who first came up with the names for any of the cultivars that are existent today. It is actually irrelevant and more of a trivia issue than anything else.

 

[Weebonilass]

Ok am I the only old school person who still believes the person who first creates the new gene combo gets to name it? Which was already established as Rich Z, and he already gave his nod to the name?
I mean in all seriousness he probably has TONS of things we dont even know about......so by the time other people create stuff, its old news to him!

I would disagree with you, Michelle. It's a project that Rich Z has already said that he didn't have any interest in and believes he has sold everything off. Sounds like he didn't produce enough for long enough to show that it's indeed a true new morph since there are so few known examples of it. The person investing the time, energy and emotion over the years that it takes to prove it out should be the one entitled to name it.