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FIRST PIP, need ID?

ForkedTung

ForkedTung

Serpent Mound Monk
This is my FIRST year of breeding...
This is my FIRST clutch ...
and THIS is my FIRST pip...
Question: This is from an Amber female x Butter male, So I was expecting Caramels het Hypo, amel, This pip looks awful light for a Caramel, could it be an Amber? ( making the sire het/homo for Hypo )
All opinions welcome.
 

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You are going to get the Caramel allele for sure along with the hypo and amel alleles in every snake. Hypo will probably be dominant to the amel so the babies will all appear to be Amber with recessive amel.
 
I don't actually produce ambers, although I have a couple of adult ambers to use in other projects. But I have produced many clutches of caramels. They look like anerys with just a hint of yellowish color - not like your hatchling. In fact, when I bred butter to amber, very dark anery looking caramels (that lightened up later) are exactly what I got.

My guess is that your butter is het or homo for hypo and has produced an amber, het amel. If all of your babies look like this, your butter must be homo hypo. If some are caramels, then he is het hypo.
 
kathylove said:
I don't actually produce ambers, although I have a couple of adult ambers to use in other projects. But I have produced many clutches of caramels. They look like anerys with just a hint of yellowish color - not like your hatchling. In fact, when I bred butter to amber, very dark anery looking caramels (that lightened up later) are exactly what I got.

My guess is that your butter is het or homo for hypo and has produced an amber, het amel. If all of your babies look like this, your butter must be homo hypo. If some are caramels, then he is het hypo.
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Thanks Kathy, that's pretty much along the lines with my thinking too...An extra suprise for my first pip...cool...now to the eating thing???
You are going to get the Caramel allele for sure along with the hypo and amel alleles in every snake. Hypo will probably be dominant to the amel so the babies will all appear to be Amber with recessive amel.
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So Wade are you calling this an amber or a Caramel w/ hets? thanks, Kyle
 
but it might be easier to visually confirm it (as much as you can) once it is completely out of the egg and sheds.
 
Exactly what Kathy said! :) My best guess would be Amber as well. Can't wait to see/hear what the rest of the clutch looks like!

As for wade's comments (and I'm hoping he just mistyped his words), Hypo will not be dominant to Amel. In a homo Hypo and Amel snake, you typically can't tell the difference between them and the "just an Amel" snake.

D80
 
Drizzt80 said:
Exactly what Kathy said! :) My best guess would be Amber as well. Can't wait to see/hear what the rest of the clutch looks like!

As for wade's comments (and I'm hoping he just mistyped his words), Hypo will not be dominant to Amel. In a homo Hypo and Amel snake, you typically can't tell the difference between them and the "just an Amel" snake.

D80
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Thanks Brent! That would be why my male Butter could be Homo Hypo right? His phenotype would only show Butter. If all 16 eggs hatch as Ambers would you feel comfortable calling him homo Hypo or would more breeding trials be necessary?( I'm going to try to figure out the odds, anyone else know what they would be for a het to produce ALL pheotypes on it's first breeding?)
Also to throw a wrench in there, there are Corals that are Hypo snows and the hypo shows through...Would this be because of the amel/anery pairing? because when hypo is paired with anery it's obvious with ghosts that hypo show.
 
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Drizzt80 said:
Exactly what Kathy said! :) My best guess would be Amber as well. Can't wait to see/hear what the rest of the clutch looks like!

As for wade's comments (and I'm hoping he just mistyped his words), Hypo will not be dominant to Amel. In a homo Hypo and Amel snake, you typically can't tell the difference between them and the "just an Amel" snake.

D80
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brain fart
 
ForkedTung said:
Thanks Brent! That would be why my male Butter could be Homo Hypo right? His phenotype would only show Butter.
Click to expand...
Correct.

If all 16 eggs hatch as Ambers would you feel comfortable calling him homo Hypo or would more breeding trials be necessary?( I'm going to try to figure out the odds, anyone else know what they would be for a het to produce ALL pheotypes on it's first breeding?)
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With 16 eggs, yes I'd be comfortable saying homo Hypo with the Butter if you hatched out all Ambers.

Also to throw a wrench in there, there are Corals that are Hypo snows and the hypo shows through...Would this be because of the amel/anery pairing? because when hypo is paired with anery it's obvious with ghosts that hypo show.
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With Coral Snows the Hypo "shows through" with a much pinker and corally looking snow. The same affect can be displayed with snakes that aren't homo Hypo, so it's not a blanket affect. (Opals, in my opinion, are just fancied up Snows . . . and look similar to Coral Snows.)

The reason you can't see the Hypo so well in an Amel is that Hypo reduces black, Amel eliminates black . . . if it's been eliminated by the Amel, there's nothing to reduce . . . vice versa, if the Hypo reduces the black and then the Amel eliminates it, how do you know it was reduced first. ;)

wade said:
brain fart
Click to expand...
No problem . . . I thought I smelled something! :D

D80
 
OK, So we've determined that the father had a hidden gene for Hypo and then I went in to check on the pips and I saw pink eyes. So now I find out that the dam is het Amel...ANOTHER wonderful suprise!!!
 

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Nice pairing, with fun results! Your luck seems to be running well - maybe one will be STRIPED, lol!
 
pic

OK, someone mentioned the possibility that the dam may be a golddust, because the pip looks very similiar to one of those. She is in shed and I will post some pics of her later, but she doesn't strike me as one, although I've never seen one in person, she does seem to have alot of brown. Would her eyes be red? Also could the Butter sire be an ultramel butter instead? anyway here is a pic of hateling #1, she full on ATTACKED a pencil I was using to move moss around with, used the pencil so I wouldn't scare HER...heh heh
 

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