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Nationwide Call Day on Monday-- HR2811

Hypancistrus said:
Awesome! What great news! They really haven't thought it through, and I am so not suprised to hear that HSUS is involved in this bill as well.

Our shadow enemies...

Here is a few of their more choice articles on pet reptiles...
http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/wildlife_news/pet_reptile_linked_to_salmonella_death.html

http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/issues_facing_wildlife/wildlife_trade/live_reptile_trade/
Click to expand...

Ya know, I wonder if there were big "debates" when the first "pet" dogs and cats came into existence. I wonder what HSUS would have said if they were around back then?
 
It is a good question, isn't it?? I think the number of people dropping off dogs and cats at shelters these days far outweighs the number of reptiles. Clearly dogs and cats are challenging and expensive pets that are not well suited to life in busy, modern American households... pet reptiles on the other hand, snakes especially, can be great modern pets. They don't REQUIRE interaction... many have simple housing requirements and are easy to feed.

Hmmm...... notice also... no reptiles in the HSUS symbol at the top of those pages.

Sometimes I think they just don't much care for reptiles.... ;)
 
Hypancistrus said:
It is a good question, isn't it?? I think the number of people dropping off dogs and cats at shelters these days far outweighs the number of reptiles. Clearly dogs and cats are challenging and expensive pets that are not well suited to life in busy, modern American households... pet reptiles on the other hand, snakes especially, can be great modern pets. They don't REQUIRE interaction... many have simple housing requirements and are easy to feed.

Hmmm...... notice also... no reptiles in the HSUS symbol at the top of those pages.

Sometimes I think they just don't much care for reptiles.... ;)
Click to expand...

Nah, what gave you THAT idea?
 
i didnt call, but i did send tons of emails again. and im glad to see what was the outcome. but on other forums the push to help out doesnt seem as great. it looks like cornsnake.com is really one of the more caring driven herp communities out there. we should try to get a forum on here just for usark support and evertime a bill comes up just try and kill it again and again with our support. make this like the sub-usark calling center.
 
pwargcm said:
i didnt call, but i did send tons of emails again. and im glad to see what was the outcome. but on other forums the push to help out doesnt seem as great. it looks like cornsnake.com is really one of the more caring driven herp communities out there. we should try to get a forum on here just for usark support and evertime a bill comes up just try and kill it again and again with our support. make this like the sub-usark calling center.
Click to expand...

That's a great idea..
 
Maybe we COULD have another subforum on laws and politics...

and maybe have US ARK be some sort of sponsor for it. There could be a sticky there about US ARK. I would want to see it up here in the main section, not in the member forums, though. I guess US ARK wouldn't have to be a "real" sponsor. It could just be a law forum in which they figure prominently. But if they had a sticky, and we all had their banners in our sigs, then people might get the idea of how important they have become in a short time.

What do the mods think of this idea? I hate to bother Rich during this time of year. But will all of the legal challenges lately, we need to do whatever we can.
 
Emails are great, but do remember that it's easy to ignore emails. Faxes use up resources (paper) and phone calls do to (time for paid staff to answer) and are harder to ignore.

I am feeling good about where we are now, but fearful for the future. We managed to pull off a good effort, but what we saw on other forums, with folks who were into non-python reptiles is that they just don't see this as an issue. I really fear that we will end up like hand gun owners in Maryland... disbelieving that the regs will ever affect us when they begin attacking one extreme only to find ourselves stripped of our rights to own even a harmless cornsnake. I don't want to see that happen... I won't stay here if it does happen. It'll be merry old England for me! ;)

But I worry that it could... a lot of folks seem to have their heads in the sand. How can we reach them in time?
 
kathylove said:
and maybe have US ARK be some sort of sponsor for it. There could be a sticky there about US ARK. I would want to see it up here in the main section, not in the member forums, though. I guess US ARK wouldn't have to be a "real" sponsor. It could just be a law forum in which they figure prominently. But if they had a sticky, and we all had their banners in our sigs, then people might get the idea of how important they have become in a short time.

What do the mods think of this idea? I hate to bother Rich during this time of year. But will all of the legal challenges lately, we need to do whatever we can.
Click to expand...

These are excellent ideas, Kathy. I wonder if we could get a legal forum as well. Can we direct a mod to this post? They could then take the idea to Rich from us?

Oh, Dean... Susan... here guys..... *drops some butter stripe hatchlings on the floor like bread crumbs....*
 
*tsk tsk*... and she could have used the "Edit" function to avoid it all! You know... that little button that becomes available with your shiny badge?
 
RobbiesCornField said:
*tsk tsk*... and she could have used the "Edit" function to avoid it all! You know... that little button that becomes available with your shiny badge?
Click to expand...

After reading the balls versus guts thread I just couldn't bring myself to delete it, Robbie. I have to put my foot down on some things. ;)
 
kathylove said:
and maybe have US ARK be some sort of sponsor for it. There could be a sticky there about US ARK. I would want to see it up here in the main section, not in the member forums, though. I guess US ARK wouldn't have to be a "real" sponsor. It could just be a law forum in which they figure prominently. But if they had a sticky, and we all had their banners in our sigs, then people might get the idea of how important they have become in a short time.

What do the mods think of this idea? I hate to bother Rich during this time of year. But will all of the legal challenges lately, we need to do whatever we can.
Click to expand...

Excellent Suggestion Kathy-
Maybe we COULD have another subforum on laws and politics
And get it out of the general chit chat, as there seems to be so much of that coming on the original thread now. Up until about 3 days ago I'd never really taken a pro-active stance on anything political. This was a turning point, and I'll probably continue to do so. I still don't want a python, but that wasn't what it was about to me, really, it was about freedom and putting lots of American businesses at risk.
But it also gave me time to reflect on many current issues. Firstly, the HSUS has, through tv and effective usage of the media, spread awareness of pets in plight, and, as a result, numerous pets of all kinds are put up for adoption, rather than being "put to sleep". The HSUS has also encouraged shelters to exist, and today, there are many shelters for iguanas, as well as many other reptile pets. Those shelters, whether we want to admit it or not, are part of the reptile community. While I do not always agree with all of every organizations' methods and politics, it is important, I feel, to "see a way around the abyss". If the herp community continues to bash the HSUS, then the herp community may isolate itself from the rest of the pet community. I may not like some of the things HSUS does or does not do, but I also feel that expressing so may cause an un-reconcilable divide. Personally, I feel that using some tact around dealing with that organization is necessary, but making them an enemy of the reptile community is not the way to go. HSUS & USARK: "We don't have to like each other to work well together". Politics is always a give and take, and not everybody always gets what they want.

If putting a microchip in all captive produced snakes of the "Big Six" is what it takes to keep them in commerce, so be it, I don't have a problem with that, and i don't think a lot of the buying public would pitch a fit. It may even cause persons to think a bit harder about that scaly thing they want around their necks, an advertisement that they want some attention...those big snakes sure get you some attention... or if you have to be 21 to make the purchase..... or like getting a Sam & Ella Slider, get a permit for having it...anything to keep track of CB potentially dangerous exotic species. Put together something like an agriculture department of the gov. or .state to regulate, inspect, check on captive breeders, to show up at herp show/sales, to scan the reptiles to make sure they are all in compliance, whatever it takes. If a $35 ball python then costs $59.95, so be it. And if the reptile community can show the rest of America they are concerned about these issues, with regards to things other than personal loss of income, then perhaps American's Without Reptiles will realize we're not all far out in left field and out of touch. Yeah, we do care about your concerns too...

I've yet to find a kid that screamed and pouted and did not get that Chinese X box video game out of their parents, and, captive bred pythons chipped would still cost less than that. Never mind that that American money would stay in America. And create a few American jobs to boot.
dp
 
Although I agree that we do not want to be confrontational with the general public who may be "against us" mainly because of ignorance rather than malice, I can't agree that we have ANY common ground with HSUS and similar organizations. There is ALREADY a huge irreconcilable difference between us - that is the fact that they want the reptile trade completely shut down eventually, although they are willing to take it in pieces as it becomes available. They wrote a book, ostensibly to help people care for pet reptiles. It is titled "Reptiles as Pets". But it ended with this statement:


"Finally, we recommend that [government] regulatory bodies put an end to the reptile trade: State and local authorities are encouraged to ban the commercial collection of reptiles to protect wild populations of reptiles and ban the sale of reptiles as pets to the general public in order to protect human health..."

Our demise is their STATED goal - I would definitely call that a deal breaker.

Less well known is their more hidden agenda to someday do away with ALL pets, even cats and dogs. I have read quotes from high ranking officials over the years stating that they would like to see all dogs and cats neutered and spayed, and gone in one generation. I have no idea if that is an official goal, but I believe it is a goal of many of their well paid organizers.

HSUS does not support any local shelters (although I believe they sometimes make a pittance of their revenue available in grants available for specific projects for shelters). Call your local shelter and ask for yourself - I did that several years ago. Most of their millions of dollars goes to advancing their political agenda, or advertising for more donations, not to help animals directly.

I have looked up a lot of this info over the years, but can't tell you exactly where to find the info - you can research it on the Web for yourself - it is out there. But it is very easy to see the quote on their own published reptile book. That alone should convince ANY reptile keeper that there is no middle ground for this group. They want to see our hobby / industry DEAD, and will only compromise temporarily to take us one piece at a time. Don't let yourself believe that these are rational people guided by logic. Their goal is based on emotion, and you will not change them with a logical appeal.

However, there ARE many non reptile people who CAN be swayed by logic. Some of those may even be HSUS or PETA contributors because they don't realize that those organizations would also do away with Fluffy and Fido if they could. THOSE people deserve our efforts at education. Emotional, illogical people with established, anti - herp agendas will only waste our effort and resources, while driving us to the brink of madness.

Sorry for the rant. I have been around long enough to be extremely frustrated by unreasonable, illogical, humaniac types, and my blood starts boiling when I think of how much power they wield because of unsuspecting pet lovers who send their hard earned money to these groups.
 
kathylove said:
Sorry for the rant. I have been around long enough to be extremely frustrated by unreasonable, illogical, humaniac types, and my blood starts boiling when I think of how much power they wield because of unsuspecting pet lovers who send their hard earned money to these groups.
Click to expand...

You just saved me the time of typing it out. ;)

Becoming friends or even colleagues with HSUS is somewhat akin to President Obama shaking hands with Bin Laden. I hope and pray it never happens.

PETA and HSUS share much the same goals, although HSUS is seen as a less extreme version, and a great many people who will not support PETA will support HSUS because they think that HSUS helps animals by running shelters. It's the Humane Society of the United States... it must be the big "parent group" of all the humane societies. They are mistaken, and being taken advantage of by clever advertising. Kathy is right... those people need education!

The people who run HSUS can go jump off a bridge for all I care. They are our enemies. Period.
 
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