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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Anery or Charcoal?
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Old 03-18-2021, 07:56 PM   #1
JKent2244
Anery or Charcoal?

Hi everyone,

So I bought a snake from someone a couple of months ago and recently asked about it's genetics from the person i bought the snake from - they directed me to their Instagram with the below picture (screenshot from there) of the snakes it was bred from.

My question, is the anery an anery, or a charcoal? It's rather hard to tell and they don't seem to know a whole bunch regarding morphs.

I've not long got into owning corn snakes so trying make sure I understand everything surrounding genetics and husbandry (seem to have nailed the latter - snake in question is eating very well, has had 2 full sheds, growing really well and has good levels of activity). Eventually, years down the line if/when I get into breeding I would want to understand the genetic history any snakes I may own or should I sell the snake, I wouldn't want to mislead anyone over its genetics.

Thanks in advance,
Jonathan.

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Old 03-18-2021, 09:10 PM   #2
Shiari
Baby pictures of the snake in question would make the id a lot easier, but the low contrast, one color head, and lack of any significant yellow makes me lean strongly towards charcoal.
 
Old 03-18-2021, 09:36 PM   #3
JKent2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiari View Post
Baby pictures of the snake in question would make the id a lot easier, but the low contrast, one color head, and lack of any significant yellow makes me lean strongly towards charcoal.
That's my thinking- unfortunately they're not great on giving any information and the only pictures of the clutch I can get is attached. Even still, you can't really see the babies particularly well. My thinking is if it was an anery, they'd have produced some snows but all they produced was amels and ?anery/charcoal. The one I bought was an Amel.

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Old 03-18-2021, 10:54 PM   #4
Shiari
Those look like normals and amels. Too bad there's no baby pictures of the parent.

So, those results could mean 1 of 2 things: one- the amel is not het for anery and the sire is an anery. two- the amel is het OR not het for anery and the sire is a charcoal.
 
Old 03-18-2021, 11:01 PM   #5
JKent2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiari View Post
Those look like normals and amels. Too bad there's no baby pictures of the parent.

So, those results could mean 1 of 2 things: one- the amel is not het for anery and the sire is an anery. two- the amel is het OR not het for anery and the sire is a charcoal.
The clutch in that photo is the offspring of the snakes in the first picture.

I suppose if I do ever start breeding, I could proof it with a snow, as if the parents were Anery het amel x amel unknown het, the amel off spring would amel het anery, which should if I've got it right, when bred with a snow, should produce snows and amel het anery. Or have I got that completely wrong?

Honestly, this corn snake morphs thing is utterly confusing and to add, a lot of the morphs appear pretty much the same to me! Yet some some of the supposedly same morph look completely different!

Sometimes I think people just make it up as they go

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Old 03-19-2021, 12:32 AM   #6
Shiari
Yes, you have the genetics correct. If the parent of your snake is an anery, and you breed your amel to a snow, you should then produce snows and and amels het anery.
 
Old 03-19-2021, 06:08 PM   #7
Seriva Senkalora
A closer look at the eye can give you the answer.
True charcoals have nearly solid black eyes while anery has an grey iris.

Cheers,
Seriva
 
Old 03-19-2021, 08:57 PM   #8
Shiari
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seriva Senkalora View Post
A closer look at the eye can give you the answer.
True charcoals have nearly solid black eyes while anery has an grey iris.

Cheers,
Seriva
When I get home I can show you pictures of charcoals I have hatched here with bright silver eyes. This is not an accurate way to tell. IF the iris is black, most likely a charcoal yes. But if the iris is light colored it tells you nothing.
 
Old 03-20-2021, 04:07 AM   #9
Seriva Senkalora
Well, I'm breeding and keeping corns for a while now and with european lineage this works 100%. I wouldn't say this if it hadn't been proven over many years.

But I know about Anerys without yellow which had been called Charcoal when they are in fact just Anery. Those had light eyes like your snake but when bred to a dark eyed true Charcoal, it resulted in a clutch of normals. ����♀️
 
Old 03-20-2021, 09:09 AM   #10
Shiari
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seriva Senkalora View Post
Well, I'm breeding and keeping corns for a while now and with european lineage this works 100%. I wouldn't say this if it hadn't been proven over many years.

But I know about Anerys without yellow which had been called Charcoal when they are in fact just Anery. Those had light eyes like your snake but when bred to a dark eyed true Charcoal, it resulted in a clutch of normals. ����♀️
Well, guess you'd better hope that none of my line makes it to Europe! The grandmother of that charcoal was a near black pewter from SMR. The grandfather was a silver eyed charcoal from a random post store. The grandfather was bred to the pewter and a ghost. The pewter pairing produced all charcoals. The ghost pairing produced normals, hypos, and amels. He was most certainly a charcoal. I kept a daughter with bronze eyes (you can look at my dark charcoal thread to see her) and she was bred to a pewter with black eyes. And one of the results was that silver eyed charcoal I posted.
My charcoals also develop yellow.
 

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