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Health Issues/Feeding Problems Anything related to general or specific health problems. Issues having to do with feeding problems or tips.

A Couple Questions... about Corn Snake Care/Feeding
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Old 03-27-2005, 04:09 AM   #1
DevXen
A Couple Questions... about Corn Snake Care/Feeding

hey.. i have a Red Corn Snake... and i'm rather new to snakes, other then the Garter snakes i cought when i was little, who would eat Feeder Fish... So having a Bigger snake that Eats Mice, is a little different.. this Snake is Full Grown, or nearly full grown, if indeed its not and i had a couple questions.. if anyone wanted to offer their advice or Suggestions.


1. The Snake was a bright Reddish Color when we got it.. about a month ago... now it seems to be a darker Brownish Red.. is that normal.. or?

2. some of his Scales seem to be Peeling, or Flaking off.. i noticed this a few days ago.. his eyes are'nt cloudy.. so i don't think he's gettin' ready to shed, even though he may be. ... Could be from the mice as well though.

3. The Snakes Bedding i'm using is Apen. it came Recommended from muti-Pet Stores. I hear that most Pet Stores are in fact wrong.. from looking stuff up, on the net. So i wanted to ask if this Aspen is in fact okay. because i hear Pine, is Toxic for Lizards/snakes. Esp. if they eat it. i Previously had the little pellet looking Recycled news paper.. in there... and that was okay i guess.. but with this aspen, it allows them to Dig tunnels through it.

4. i was Holding him today... i try to hold him alot so he can get used to me. and he kept trying to get away from me. but then he looked at my face, for a bit.. and Stuck his tongue out, as they often do.. and he did that a few times, so i did it back.. a Moment later, as if in a Split second he Stroke at my face. he did'nt get it. cuz i was holding him luckily he was'nt able to reach, i possibly could have lost an eye.. or.. more likely, gotten bitten on the Tongue, or nose. ... I'm curious if thats normal. or... does he just hate me?

5. This one i saved till last.. because.. i noticed it had been asked a few times before. and Seriously i did'nt want to Annoy anyone.. and its kinda related to The Previous Question (#4). You see my Snake won't eat. i can tell ya, he's in a 29 Gallon tank. the Temp. is 70-80 Degrees. I don't currently have an under Tank heater, though i plan on getting one.. i had recently lost my job. and Rent has to come First. But I do plan on getting one.. i have a Lamp on the top of it. shining down. And that has an Infra-red Bulb in it. (75 Watts/Heat-Glo).. i was told this would be Sufficent for the Size of tank. and that the snakes cannot see this light, so it would'nt bother them to have it on, 24 hours a day. I also bought the Night-Glo light (Moonlight Lamp). but its barely visable at all. so i rarely use it. The Snake has 2 Boxes i have in there, for the 'hides' they are cracker boxes.. we got. one on each side. the snake goes in there sometimes, Also i have Volcano the snake likes to go into as well.

Now.. I also have a Texas Rat Snake in there.. its about the same size.. and this snake also has not eaten in about a month. but he has eaten once since i got it. and this was before i got the Corn Snake. but has'nt since.

Also.. After i got the Corn Snake, I put two 'common' mice in the tank. and left them in there for about 2 weeks. then i went to the pet store i got the Corn Snake from to look around, and asked them. and they said.. no don't keep the Mice in the tank. as they can bite the Snake, and the Snake can get afraid of the mice. and never eat them again... So i'm kinda worried this may be the case...

i Did try to Dip the one mouse in Chicken Broth.. a site i read, said as a tip you can try to dip the mouse in broth. but it did'nt say what kind. and i tried putting it in a container. (1 Gallon ice Cream Bucket) with a hole in the top. so either snake could go in there. but after 2 days, neither did. not even with the Mouse dipped in Chicken Broth.. Another Thing I read, was to Cut open the Mouses head. and that sometimes works.. But the probblems with that is, 1. I don't know how i would kill the mouse. Drown it/Smack it upside the head with something hard... and the other of the questions... Even then, i don't want to kill the Mouse, if the Snake(s) still are not going to eat it.

So I just kinda don't know what to do. should I try out Pinky Mice. even though both these snakes are pretty much Full Grown. and it would take i don't know.. 10-20 Pinky Mice. Per Snake. or. is it Reasonable to think that since the Snakes won't eat the 2 mice i have now.. they won't eat any mice.

oh yeah... the mice, one is brown, and one is white. i hear sometimes the snakes can be Picky.

But is there any advice, or Suggestions, you guys could give me. .. if they indeed won't eat mice again, is there anything else, they would Eat?. cuz i really don't want them to Starve. ... Thnx

Any Help is Appriciated.
 
Old 03-27-2005, 04:27 AM   #2
Joejr14
Eh, I think this smells foul.

:slowly backs away:
 
Old 03-27-2005, 04:54 AM   #3
DevXen
*Shrug* What do ya mean Foul?


also sorry my initial post is so long.. it was just easier to keep typing, as i was thinking of what to type, then try to Seperate it into many Smaller Posts..
 
Old 03-27-2005, 07:33 AM   #4
PtDnsr
Oh boy...here we go. I'll try to answer some of your questions, others I won't touch because I don't feel I have the experience.

Quote:
1. The Snake was a bright Reddish Color when we got it.. about a month ago... now it seems to be a darker Brownish Red.. is that normal.. or?
Snakes can get darker when they're going to shed soon. At least I have noticed that with my snakes.

Quote:
2. some of his Scales seem to be Peeling, or Flaking off.. i noticed this a few days ago.. his eyes are'nt cloudy.. so i don't think he's gettin' ready to shed, even though he may be. ... Could be from the mice as well though.
This could be because he's going to shed. If not you might want to check your husbandry to make sure everything is ok.

Quote:
3. The Snakes Bedding i'm using is Apen. it came Recommended from muti-Pet Stores. I hear that most Pet Stores are in fact wrong.. from looking stuff up, on the net. So i wanted to ask if this Aspen is in fact okay. because i hear Pine, is Toxic for Lizards/snakes. Esp. if they eat it. i Previously had the little pellet looking Recycled news paper.. in there... and that was okay i guess.. but with this aspen, it allows them to Dig tunnels through it.
Aspen is what I have heard most people recommend and what I would recommend. It's easy, clean, and cheap. My snakes love to dig through it.

Quote:
4. i was Holding him today... i try to hold him alot so he can get used to me. and he kept trying to get away from me. but then he looked at my face, for a bit.. and Stuck his tongue out, as they often do.. and he did that a few times, so i did it back.. a Moment later, as if in a Split second he Stroke at my face. he did'nt get it. cuz i was holding him luckily he was'nt able to reach, i possibly could have lost an eye.. or.. more likely, gotten bitten on the Tongue, or nose. ... I'm curious if thats normal. or... does he just hate me?
I'm not sure on this one, it could be because you scared him somehow but I'm really not sure. Probably getting used to you.


Quote:
5. This one i saved till last.. because.. i noticed it had been asked a few times before. and Seriously i did'nt want to Annoy anyone.. and its kinda related to The Previous Question (#4). You see my Snake won't eat. i can tell ya, he's in a 29 Gallon tank. the Temp. is 70-80 Degrees. I don't currently have an under Tank heater, though i plan on getting one.. i had recently lost my job. and Rent has to come First. But I do plan on getting one.. i have a Lamp on the top of it. shining down. And that has an Infra-red Bulb in it. (75 Watts/Heat-Glo).. i was told this would be Sufficent for the Size of tank. and that the snakes cannot see this light, so it would'nt bother them to have it on, 24 hours a day. I also bought the Night-Glo light (Moonlight Lamp). but its barely visable at all. so i rarely use it. The Snake has 2 Boxes i have in there, for the 'hides' they are cracker boxes.. we got. one on each side. the snake goes in there sometimes, Also i have Volcano the snake likes to go into as well.
UTH is better because lights can dry the tank out and lower the moisture level. If you think your snake is goign to shed mist the tank once or twice a day depending on how dry the tank is. You can get inexpensive temperature guns (I forget where) to help you figure out the exact temperatures of your cage as well.

As for the rest of it. I wouldn't put the snakes together at all. It will stress them both out. I also wouldn't feed live mice. F/T is much easier and safer for the snake. No need to worry about the snake being scratched or bit by a f/t mouse. I'd definately separate permanently though and at least for feeding - you don't want them to become aggressive. As I said before, this is mostly my opinion - although I hope others would agree on some of it. Hope I helped a bit!

~Katie
 
Old 03-27-2005, 09:56 AM   #5
oldhand
1) sounds normal to me, s/he may be going into shed.

2) Again could be a shed coming on, but more likley the humidity is zero, up it slightley so the skin doesn't dry out and make sure he has fress water at least every other day, with dailly highley recomended.

3) Aspen is like god to a religious person, the best thing out their, but i would recomend the shredded aspen apposed to the other variant's, thats a personal thing though.

4) Any snake will strike at you. Did you give him at least 3 days tosettle in with 5 or 7 prefered? if you did then it's just an adjustment thing and he will settle with time. If you didn't start from scatch and give him a full 5 days to settle and only go in to change the water.

5) Don't house a corn snake with anything other then a corn, and even then i would advise against it.
Heating wise UTH is the best heating mathod as corn snakes (like most snakes) need belly heat to thermoregulate.

As you said the snake hasn't eaten i would also wait now till next weekend and try an appropriate size meal, you said the snake was almost fully grown, so why not try a couple of small mice or a small-medium sized mouse and then take it from their.
 
Old 03-27-2005, 11:55 AM   #6
JTGoff69
First, how old/big is the snake?

More than likely, it's ready to shed and the color will dull when that is imminent. As for the mice doing it, I'll address that further down.


Aspen is tried and true, and most keepers on this forum use it.


I would definitely scrap the light and get a proper sized UTH. If he's in an aquatic 29gal tank, the heat is probably not reaching the bottom of the tank. And improper heat is one reason snakes wont eat. Belly heat aids digestion as well. When you say the temp is 70-80, do you mean the whole tank varies or is that the cool side/warm side temps?

Remove the Texas Rat. If, in fact, these are both full grown snakes, that tank is way too small for both of them, and it's not recommended to keep two in the same tank anyway. It, as well as the corn, are probably stressed at having to share the same living space, and with only two hides, there is nowhere to escape the other. Another reason they may not be eating.


NEVER leave live mice unattended in your snake's tank! If left in there with no food of their own, they can, and will, attack and mutilate your snake. And yes, the snake can be traumatized to the point of never taking that prey item again. You may have to switch to rat pups, different color mice, gerbils, etc. Feeding frozen/thawed mice when snakes get past the pinky/fuzzy mouse stage is the way to go to avoid any risk of injury. Feed your snake in a separate container as well so it does not risk injesting any of the aspen.


Don't try pinky mice. Wait a few days to a week after you separate the snakes and try a frozen/thawed adult mouse. Thaw it in warm water and feed it while still warm in the feeding container. If possible, leave it and the snake alone in the feeding container overnight if it doesn't eat right away. This gives the snake nothing to concentrate on but the mouse.
 
Old 03-27-2005, 02:24 PM   #7
CAV
Most of your questions are easy to answer and are commonly included on most breeders care sheets. I'd suggest starting there. (I have one on my website if you'll follow the link in my signature.)

1. Sound like your snake is about to shed, based on the description.

2. The temps are too cold if they are in fact accurate. Incorrect environmental conditions suppress feeding responses as does shedding.

3. Two adult snakes in the same enclosure isn't a good idea, especially when they are different species.

4. Throwing mice into a cage is moire likely triggering stress than a feeding response. This is especially true if your snakes are used to eating pre-killed rodents. What was the previous owner feeding them?

5. Aspen isn't pine.
 
Old 03-27-2005, 07:47 PM   #8
DevXen
Quote:
2) Again could be a shed coming on, but more likley the humidity is zero, up it slightley so the skin doesn't dry out and make sure he has fress water at least every other day, with dailly highley recomended.
I have a Spray Bottle.. in fact, i Sprayed the texas Rat snake down, pretty good the day i got him.. cuz he bit me.. and i could'nt believe he had bitten me. ... but how much should i spray in the tank.. do ya think?


Quote:
5) Don't house a corn snake with anything other then a corn, and even then i would advise against it.
Heating wise UTH is the best heating mathod as corn snakes (like most snakes) need belly heat to thermoregulate.
I'm gonna have to wait till I get another tank to Seperate 'em. i do have a 5 gallon tank.. might work for feeding Purposes. but not much more then that, i'd think. also... they were Inter-Twined togeather, for awhile..


Quote:
First, how old/big is the snake?
The Pet Store Told me, it was nearly full grown. if not full grown. I've no Idea on Age.. i'd say. 4-5 Feet long. on a Guestimate.


Quote:
I would definitely scrap the light and get a proper sized UTH. If he's in an aquatic 29gal tank, the heat is probably not reaching the bottom of the tank. And improper heat is one reason snakes wont eat. Belly heat aids digestion as well. When you say the temp is 70-80, do you mean the whole tank varies or is that the cool side/warm side temps?
i have a Temp Guage on the top portion of the tank, on the Oposite side of the Lamp. .. and When i went to bed last night it was 83 Degrees, when i woke up today, it was like 72 Degrees..... I'd Just Recently moved the tank into my Front Room, out of my bedroom. (the bedroom is alot colder then the rest of the Apt.. so i thought i'd move them out to the front room, to get warmer)... now as per getting an UTH.. i do plan on getting one.. i've actually just recently lost my job.. but i do have Gift Certificates for www.giftcertificates.com. and my G/F pointed out the other day that PetCo, is on it. so i'll prolly get one that way. (dunno how long it'll take for them to mail the actuall Certificate out though)


Quote:
Remove the Texas Rat. If, in fact, these are both full grown snakes, that tank is way too small for both of them, and it's not recommended to keep two in the same tank anyway. It, as well as the corn, are probably stressed at having to share the same living space, and with only two hides, there is nowhere to escape the other. Another reason they may not be eating.
I did'nt even think, this might be a reason, for them not eating. they do have the 2 Boxes for hides, and a Vocano. the Texas Rat snake likes to go in.. and also. i have the Aspen prolly 4 inches high.. there's alot in there.. so they like to dig, and hide under the Aspen alot.


Quote:
NEVER leave live mice unattended in your snake's tank! If left in there with no food of their own, they can, and will, attack and mutilate your snake. And yes, the snake can be traumatized to the point of never taking that prey item again. You may have to switch to rat pups, different color mice, gerbils, etc. Feeding frozen/thawed mice when snakes get past the pinky/fuzzy mouse stage is the way to go to avoid any risk of injury. Feed your snake in a separate container as well so it does not risk injesting any of the aspen.
See I was'nt told this, at first, so there were 2 mice in the tank with the Snakes for probbably 2 weeks.... Wonderin' if thats where the issues with the Corn Snake's Scales are from.. I am going to try out F/T's mice.. on monday. and even then, i can try cutting the head open.. as i was told, works sometimes.



Quote:
2. The temps are too cold if they are in fact accurate. Incorrect environmental conditions suppress feeding responses as does shedding.
Yeah i was reading this.. thus the reason i brought the tank out from our bedroom to the front room (as mentioned above).. my only real fear now.. is our 3 cats can get to the tank.. and 'annoy' the Snakes. or even if the snakes are crowling accross the top of tank.. around the edges of the lid.. the one cat we have that's not declawed yet.. might be able to Claw at it. .. so thats a fear, while we sleep. cuz the Cover of the tank, is a lockable Screen. heck, if all 3 cats jumped on it, it might even fall through.

*All i could find is this Plastic/Screen Cover.. unlike the Metal one, i have for my Trianchula i got a few years ago*

Quote:
4. Throwing mice into a cage is moire likely triggering stress than a feeding response. This is especially true if your snakes are used to eating pre-killed rodents. What was the previous owner feeding them?
as of lately i been putting the mice in the tank.. for awhile. keeping an eye on 'em.. and then taking them out, after awhile.. Both Snakes.. were Previously fed live mice. or at least as I was told anyhow.


Quote:
5. Aspen isn't pine.
No.. its not Pine, but I thought i read somewhere, that all Woods have Toxins in them. and can be harmful if accidently eaten by Lizards/Snakes... Pine is just moreso Toxic then most of them.. as per what i've read, anyhow..



i wanted to thank you all, for your help so far... its Greatly appriciated.
i just want my Snakes to be happy and heathly.


Also i have a pretty big Water bowl in the tank.. but i don't think its quite big enough for them to coil up in. .. i'm still trying to find a bowl big enough for them.. i have that 1 gallon Ice Cream Bucket. but that i would think, would be too big.
 
Old 03-27-2005, 08:31 PM   #9
JTGoff69
i have a Temp Guage on the top portion of the tank, on the Oposite side of the Lamp. .. and When i went to bed last night it was 83 Degrees, when i woke up today, it was like 72 Degrees.....


You need to measure the temp on the top of the substrate under the lamp since that is your "warm" side right now, and the temp of the substrate is what your snake is actually feeling. Those would be good for the warm and cool side temps if that's what they read.

No.. its not Pine, but I thought i read somewhere, that all Woods have Toxins in them. and can be harmful if accidently eaten by Lizards/Snakes... Pine is just moreso Toxic then most of them.. as per what i've read, anyhow..

Pine and cedar are toxic to snakes. Aspen is not, but could cause impaction if ingested, hence feeding in a separate container.

You wont be able to fit a water bowl they can soak in in that tank, and they rarely soak unless something is wrong. A gentle mist every day during the week they are shedding should be enough.
 
Old 03-28-2005, 08:52 PM   #10
Sabine66
I feel the same way like Joejr14. Are these real questions?
 

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