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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Question about Ultras?
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Old 06-18-2005, 11:53 PM   #1
SickPyth7
Question about Ultras?

I'm just trying to grasp what Ultra's are? What is a ultra? In other words where does it begin, with a normal ultra? An Ultra Amel?

They seen to be one of the better genes to have in your corns but I'm trying to figure out if its a pattern, color, or some kind of improvement gene?

Please help me?
 
Old 06-19-2005, 12:05 AM   #2
Sisuitl
Ultra is one of the many types of hypo that is out there. The unusual thing about it is, it's compatable with amelanism. That means that if you breed an animal that is homozygous for ultra to an amel, instead of getting all normals het for amel and ultra, you get ultramels. Genetically they are het for ultra and amel, but since the two genes are compatable they appear really bright, somewhere between a hypo and an amel.
 
Old 06-19-2005, 12:31 AM   #3
Joejr14
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickPyth7
I'm just trying to grasp what Ultra's are? What is a ultra? In other words where does it begin, with a normal ultra? An Ultra Amel?

They seen to be one of the better genes to have in your corns but I'm trying to figure out if its a pattern, color, or some kind of improvement gene?

Please help me?
Like was said, ultra is a hypo-like trait. It happens to be an allele to amelanism, so when you breed an ultra to an amel you get ultramels, which is something in the middle of an ultra and an amel. Much lighter than an ultra, but darker than an amel. Basically an amel with some black, if you can picture that. There are threads with plenty of pictures if you want to do a search.

Ultra is not a pattern or an improvement gene. It's just a hypo-like gene that's pretty new. I think everyone agrees that the original ultras were actually hybrids and that ultra is linked back to a grey rat cross.

It begins with a normal ultra, and then expands from there. If you cross with an amel, you get ultramels. You can cross with a butter and get ultramels het caramel, and then breed those back and get some golddusts (ultramel caramel). There's plenty that you can breed ultras to that hasn't really shown up yet. Ultra bloodreds, ultra lavenders, ultramel bloodreds, ultramel lavenders, ultra charcoals, etc.
 
Old 06-19-2005, 09:59 AM   #4
cka
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisuitl
That means that if you breed an animal that is homozygous for ultra to an amel, instead of getting all normals het for amel and ultra, you get ultramels. Genetically they are het for ultra and amel
I think it should read "you'll get ultramels or hets amel OR ultra"...They can't be hetero. for both, it's either one or the other :*)
 
Old 06-19-2005, 10:15 AM   #5
mike panic
Im not so sure about that....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joejr14
Ultra is not a pattern or an improvement gene. It's just a hypo-like gene that's pretty new. I think everyone agrees that the original ultras were actually hybrids and that ultra is linked back to a grey rat cross.
I for one, DONT agree that the original ultras were hybrids with Grey Rat or anything for that matter. As a matter of fact, I think if you go back and look at the orginal very HOT debates on these snakes most of the folks who have them and keep them dont in fact believe they are hybrids at all. This was largely based on an email from a disgruntled breeder who in my opinion knew he shot himself in the foot when he sold the collection. I'm pretty sure some of the big names out there, guys who paved the way in this hobby would NOT have kept them in their collections if they really believed they were hybrids. I think you're slightly off the mark when you say that "everyone" agrees that they are hybrids. Best of luck.
 
Old 06-19-2005, 10:23 AM   #6
SickPyth7
Mike Panic,
Ok so Ultra is just another line of Hypo out there, BUT it is completely compatible w/Amelanistics!

Do you have a picture of a regular Ultra and an Ultramel?
 
Old 06-19-2005, 10:25 AM   #7
SickPyth7
Also Where Can I Buy An Ultramel Or Ultra?
 
Old 06-19-2005, 11:07 AM   #8
Serpwidgets
Quote:
Originally Posted by cka
I think it should read "you'll get ultramels or hets amel OR ultra"...They can't be hetero. for both, it's either one or the other :*)
Nuhuh, ultramels are heterozygous for ultra and amel. (There is one amel gene, one ultra gene, no wild-type genes present.) Amel X Ultra (since they are alleles) produces ultramels:
a<sup>a</sup>·a<sup>a</sup> X a<sup>u</sup>·a<sup>u</sup> = a<sup>a</sup>·a<sup>u</sup>

Everything that is het is het for two things at that locus. (If the two alleles are different from each other, you can't have one type, hehe.) This generally means it's het for a mutant and a wild type gene, but the wild type is left out and it's just said that "it's het for the mutant." With ultra and motley scenarios, being het does not necessarily mean there's a wild-type gene in the mix.

If you cross an ultramel to a normal, the offspring will be het for either amel OR ultra.
a<sup>a</sup>·a<sup>u</sup> X A<sup>+</sup>·A<sup>+</sup> =
A<sup>+</sup>·a<sup>a</sup> (normal-looking)
A<sup>+</sup>·a<sup>u</sup> (normal-looking)
 
Old 06-19-2005, 11:14 AM   #9
Serpwidgets
As far as the hybrid issue goes, the way I read those emails, it sounded like there was an original wild-caught corn carrying the ultra gene, and it was crossed to a hybrid to found one group of snakes, and crossed to "pure corns" (butter motley or something similar) to found another set of lines. I do not believe that all ultras are hybrids. (Although I don't care even one little tiny bit if they are hybrids. ) It is my understanding that the story says "some are and some are not."
 
Old 06-19-2005, 11:15 AM   #10
cka
Thanks Serp for the correction :*)...
 

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