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Husbandry and Basic Care General stuff about keeping and maintaining cornsnakes in captivity.

Random thoughts on corns and their care
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:25 PM   #11
And I love my AP racks! LOL
I have a couple cages on order from AP, for my Carpet Pythons & I cannot wait to get them!
Old 11-04-2013, 01:43 PM   #12
Each of my snakes has a dedicated feeding tub with its name written on it. These bins are actually part of my Florida Class III disaster plan for evacuation, which I am required to have to be able to sell reptiles in Florida. They came in handly when I had to remove everyone to have my ducts cleaned! If anyone poops in their bin, it gets bleached.
Old 11-04-2013, 03:17 PM   #13
I agree with everyone so far... (call my indecisive!)
I feed my corn outside of her vive - possibly a specific case in which she was ESPECIALLY cage-defensive, and no longer is since I have been doing this - and I feed my ball python inside his vive.

I like Nanci's point about the handling, though. Not every breeder is going to be able to handle each hatchling or snake routinely (unfortunately...) but for those who can I think it's a great idea.
Old 11-04-2013, 08:16 PM   #14
Lt. Dan
Non breeder weighing in here. I have to agree with Nanci on feeding outside the viv. Best chance to spot clean and inspect their Vivs are while my boys are feeding. Each has their own designated feeding box. King (my oldest) is particularly inquisitive when I'm entering his viv and can be voracious, so I'd rather not give him any incentives to strike while I'm around his viv. Granted he's also a king snake which I've come to learn has more "spunk" than most of my corns.
To avoid stress though I have on ocassion fed my youngest corns in their Vivs but I definitely prefer to remove them for feeding.
Old 11-04-2013, 09:40 PM   #15
Oh yeah!
Originally Posted by Nanci View Post
I'm familiar with Chip's method of heating. Speaking of unregulated heating...
Nothing I keep is on unregulated heating, lol! I did run an experimental rack wide open for a year, but it isn't like I just use big cages and crank them. I doubt you meant that the way it reads.

Originally Posted by Nanci View Post
I think it is dependent on having big enough enclosures for the snakes to move away from the heat. I'm pretty sure a shoebox sized hatchling bin isn't big enough, and I have my doubts that a 66 quart adult bin is.
I'm certain a shoebox isn't, but a 66 quart is, unless maybe in a warm room. I can't recall ever seeing snakes against the front, where substrate temps are in the low to mid 70's.
Old 11-05-2013, 05:34 AM   #16
No- I know you have your animals on thermostats- it just came out that way, Chip.

I must be more interesting for snakes to watch, then- mine are always out staring at me!

If anyone wonders, Chip has several of my babies and I don't worry about them in the slightest- they are THRIVING! People just do stuff differently sometimes. I think this forum gets a lot more riled up when it's a new person with their first snake who steps away from what most view as conventional care. When someone who has years of experience behind them, their methods obviously work for them. Robert Applegate cohabs, in elaborate set-ups, and who am I to say he's doing it wrong???
Old 11-10-2013, 02:57 PM   #17
dave partington
Originally Posted by Chip View Post

notions have become more concrete

[A]Things I've changed my mind on, and no longer believe:[/b]
3) Bloodred has a tendency to be weak genetically.
4) Inbreeding has innate negative consequences.
5) There is some, even if minor, benefit to live or pre-killed vs. frozen mice.
6) Homemade racks can be built better and cheaper than commercial racks (at least by someone with my skill set).
7) 7 to 10 days before feeding or handling a reptile is needed to let them settle in to a new enclosure.

Things I feel more strongly about:

3) Given a proper temperature to move to, they will not burn themselves, even with "too hot" of a hot spot.
4) A percentage of babies that hatch should never be bred (subjective as that statement is).
7) Cohabitation is a bad idea.

That should get the ball rolling. I suspect many of you "old-timers" will agree with some of these points and take issue with others, I'm curious as to your thoughts.
Good thread.
From the {A} category:
3) Bloodred has a tendency to be weak genetically.

I suspect a lot of the "early bloodreds" were highly inbred, which may have led to the concept that they were "genetically weak". Nowadays, since they have been out-crossed into so many differing bloodlines, there are many available that are very un-related. So putting two together appears to result in healthier offspring. I also suspect that when "highly un-related" bloodreds, or bloodred X het bloodred, are put together, this is what causes the "bloodred gene" to split into pied, red coating, diffusion, (***) and the base color of bloodred minus the red-coating, but still with split belly checkers. Not touching Masque. And I can't help but wonder how many other genes can be split. Time will tell.

Reduce the visual black and isolate it away from red-coating, diffusion, white belly, pied -while utilizing the dark old-school bloodreds genetics- and it could pass for strawberry.

4) Inbreeding has innate negative consequences.

A lot of breeders had problems with stargazer, but then a lot of the early SK were heavily inbred to reproduce the gene. Possibly related to the quip about bloodred being genetically inferior in the morph's early years, I am going to disagree here. But then by inbreeding I am assuming that you mean inbreeding beyond sibXsib F3.

5) There is some, even if minor, benefit to live or pre-killed vs. frozen mice.

Their nutritional value is better, no doubt about it. Vitamin supplements, wow. What a difference those make, for the better. Plus, you probably know if the food was fed corn and soy meal, or a more normal diet for a real mouse.

6. Racks.
Yup. But I live to the south of you. Snapped down clamps + specific temp controlled (entire) rooms are more cost effective then all the melamine. Just stack them up. Males on the bottom, females above. Some shelves are good for babies and juvies in smaller housing.

7) 7 to 10 days before feeding or handling a reptile is needed to let them settle in to a new enclosure.

For a baby less then a year in age which has never been force-fed AND has no feeding issues, yes.

There are many plants and animals in trade, horticulture, this thing we do, etc, which are not hardy outside of controlled&conditioned environmental situations. Re-conditioning once they leave place A for place B. Kinda like how a lot of adult females, if shipped pre-winter/post-lay, will breed the following year, but, if they are sent from place A to place B in the spring, they may not lay fertile clutches. Just an observation, nothing truly scientific.

I find that hardy stock needs 2-5 days to settle in. Adults usually feed right out of the fedex box without incident IMHO.

From the B group:
3) Given a proper temperature to move to, they will not burn themselves, even with "too hot" of a hot spot.

With heated rooms instead of miles of fire hazardous UTH stuff and wires galore, there is no burning of snakes. A fan and a ceramic heater on a concrete pad saved me how much time and money in all that other stuff. But still not practical for a keeper of one pet. Is there something wrong or hurtful to a snake to let it experience the seasons? To slow down growth in winter, feed less, sleep/brumate we call it now/ awhile? Would allowing the snake to have more naturalistic temperature conditioning be harmful to them, or weed out the 'not as hardy as I have led myself to believe' stock?

4) A percentage of babies that hatch should never be bred (subjective as that statement is).

This sorta covers everything I've already ranted on. A portion of nearly every clutch. Should (assumed genetically) weak hatchlings be cornsnakes forced alive? But then never bred? We have no control what happens once they leave us.

7) Cohabitation is a bad idea.
For cornsnakes, yes. Generally. There are exceptions to every rule, especially where living organisms are concerned, however, rules are not based on exceptions. And this statement just invalidated all that other dibble i posted here.

Thanks for the free candy.

Brain candy, that is.
Old 11-10-2013, 08:24 PM   #18
Originally Posted by dave partington View Post
Vitamin supplements, wow. What a difference those make, for the better.
What sort of vitamins do you use?
Old 11-20-2013, 05:08 PM   #19
I'll go. I use Exo-Terra's multivitamin for reptiles. In very low amounts, since it is difficult to measure/administer. When just dusting the rear end of a mouse, exactly how much is ingested is impossible to measure. I also use a calcium supplement on my females from the time they come out of brumation until about 5-6 weeks after laying. Again, I use a lot less than the package recommends, but feel positive it helps prevent dystocia. Nothing prevents it as much as exercise, though! Curious to hear what Dave uses/likes.
Old 11-20-2013, 09:53 PM   #20
dave partington
Whoops, sorry, dropped this thread and just found it again.
I use Reptivite from beanfarm.
Interesting note on the calcium Chip, thanks for the morsel of goodness.
if that doesn't work,

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