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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Pied sided with no white?
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Old 08-08-2020, 03:25 PM   #1
waldo
Pied sided with no white?

I was searching morph market and came across a pied sided blood that was listed as no white. Isn't the white marking what makes a pied, pied? How would you tell a no white apart from a regular blood?
 
Old 09-25-2020, 09:18 AM   #2
scmartin27
Pied is a weird one. The breeding was a Pied x Pied, therefore all snakes are genetically Pied.
But some Snakes that are genetically Pied don't show it visually, and that has to do with the color migration while in development.
When corns are developing in the egg, the color and pattern develop from the spine downward. Diffused slows/stops the progression of the pattern shortly after the first few scales down from the spine (in lower expression diffused, it stops progression farther down). Pied stops progression of the Color a few scales down from the spine (same is true here: lower expression pieds stop progression farther down, high expression pieds stop progression farther up closer to the spine). When you have a low expression bloodred whose pattern isn't stopped high enough, it can cause the pied's expression to be lower as well.
This can also be affected by whether the Masque gene is present (or if it's homozygous vs heterozygous), as the Masque gene assists diffused in the slowing of progression.
I saw the post you're talking about (Looks like NOLA Reptiles was the producer), and it looks like many snakes in that clutch didn't have the masque gene, or at least it was not homozygous. So that could be one reason that the progression wasn't slowed/stopped soon enough for the pied to be visual.
Hope that helped! I know it's confusing!
 
Old 09-25-2020, 09:25 AM   #3
scmartin27
I wanted to post a screen shot of this so people can see what we're referencing... I'm sure the add for this snake will be gone soon, so this is just for record's sake

I also want to mention that Tessera siblings (non-tesseras from a tessera parent) often have other odd things going on with pattern and color placement. I can't verify for 100% sure, but this could potentially add to the reason why the pied wasn't visually expressed.
 
Old 12-07-2020, 07:00 AM   #4
waldo
I missed your response, thank you for explaining. I really didn't know that low or no expression pied was a thing lol.

The ad I saw was not the one you posted, it was a different breeder. I don't remember what, if any other genes were listed.

The snake was considerably darker then the nola one and had cleaner looking diffusion.
 
Old 01-19-2021, 09:59 PM   #5
pitzMike
Quote:
Originally Posted by scmartin27 View Post
Pied is a weird one. The breeding was a Pied x Pied, therefore all snakes are genetically Pied.
But some Snakes that are genetically Pied don't show it visually, and that has to do with the color migration while in development.
When corns are developing in the egg, the color and pattern develop from the spine downward. Diffused slows/stops the progression of the pattern shortly after the first few scales down from the spine (in lower expression diffused, it stops progression farther down). Pied stops progression of the Color a few scales down from the spine (same is true here: lower expression pieds stop progression farther down, high expression pieds stop progression farther up closer to the spine). When you have a low expression bloodred whose pattern isn't stopped high enough, it can cause the pied's expression to be lower as well.
This can also be affected by whether the Masque gene is present (or if it's homozygous vs heterozygous), as the Masque gene assists diffused in the slowing of progression.
I saw the post you're talking about (Looks like NOLA Reptiles was the producer), and it looks like many snakes in that clutch didn't have the masque gene, or at least it was not homozygous. So that could be one reason that the progression wasn't slowed/stopped soon enough for the pied to be visual.
Hope that helped! I know it's confusing!
I thought Pied is random and is not sure to be passed down? Does Pied x Pied has 100% chance of Pied babies or any non-looking Pied still be classified as Pied or Het Pied? The pic looks like Diffused IMHO
 

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